Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition


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Offline Parax

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2010, 01:58:47 pm »
just you to see how random those cards are, I got 597 rings first try just now...

In CS1, I think it shouldn't be a score chart in there, since it can go up to 1,5 million points gettion 8000 points every 5 seconds and finishing the level. it would be pointless having that kind of route since everyone can do it normally. competitions are usually to test player's skills, and if we're going to have a chart that lots of people will get (almost) the same stat I don't think it has any sense in having a score chart for it.

by the same logic - we shouldn't track any maxable ring/score stats (or time, in SSR's case). Competition tests numbers, not skill.

Offline Ajavalo

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2010, 04:43:23 pm »
Ah, the so awaited Sonic 4 is finally here! I would love to get this game, but I don't have enough Wii points :(

I like everything that I've seen about this game: the graphics and the music are awesome, speed and platforming seem to be well balanced and I don't mind those slope physics! :P

Also, about CS1 charts: I think the best we could do is disalowing the slot machine, as we do with any infinite ring source like dug up rings in SA/SA2; "You may not earn rings from the slot machine". That would make both ring and score charts perfect! (or almost)
Sonic tiene que acabar mareadito con las carreras que se pega! No sé cómo no pota! x.x

Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2010, 06:21:39 pm »
Quote
My view on this would be to allow the ring and score charts for CS2/3, simply due to the fact that there isn't a slot machine in the level. CS1 Rings are, obviously, out of the question. However, now to inject a valid reason, CS1 Scores should be disallowed, simply due to the fact that:

The scores are reliant on rings, so having a chart allowed even though it is reliant on a banned chart is fine?[/u]

wut

Someone explain to me why we should have a chart be allowed when it is reliant on something we disallow. That is a logical fallacy :/

This is actually a pretty good point. If we're disallowing CS1 rings then we should disallow CS1 scores, if we're allowing CS1 scores then we should allow CS1 rings.

That would be a good point if it were entirely true. Any decent run would get 999 rings, the score is dependant on other factors as I stated in my casino night case. The score consists of scalping from the slot machine, which we allow, the combos from enemies and the skill and guts required to get to and from the slot machine to finish the level - for reference my first two super sonic runs died on the final stretch, and then the rings. And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

Also I have been thinking about how to put into words why the rings chart is banned but I just can't do it properly. For the record though, I wouldn't be opposed to there being a ring chart, but at the same time I'm not gonna argue its case. In my mind there is some indescribable logic that has it make sense. Someone else put it into words for me please? <_<

Offline francisco

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2010, 08:32:37 pm »
so... when are the charts up?

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2010, 11:47:55 pm »
Also, about CS1 charts: I think the best we could do is disalowing the slot machine, as we do with any infinite ring source like dug up rings in SA/SA2; "You may not earn rings from the slot machine". That would make both ring and score charts perfect! (or almost)

Good luck enforcing that.

And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

I don't think it cancels out, or else i wouldn't've brought the point up. I want someone to explain why that we can use a method that is allowed in one chart, but not another. And do not bring up a precedent in another game, as that would just leave me confused, asking why that/those charts are allowed too.

Also I have been thinking about how to put into words why the rings chart is banned but I just can't do it properly. For the record though, I wouldn't be opposed to there being a ring chart, but at the same time I'm not gonna argue its case. In my mind there is some indescribable logic that has it make sense. Someone else put it into words for me please? <_<

Easy to max, no competitive value, pointless 0p chart >_>
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Offline Parax

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2010, 12:57:18 am »
^ yet we track tons of other easy maxes. :/

Offline SonicandInuyasha

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2010, 01:04:43 am »
When are the Sonic 4 ep 1 charts are going to be up? I have some times, rings and scores to post. It looks like everyone is ready.

and by the way this is just for ep 1 or for the whole Sonic 4 game or just for ep 1 right now?
I love to play Mario and Sonic games with a mix of Donkey Kong and Kirby games. Yes I'm a Nintendo nerd.

Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2010, 02:41:59 am »
And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

I don't think it cancels out, or else i wouldn't've brought the point up. I want someone to explain why that we can use a method that is allowed in one chart, but not another. And do not bring up a precedent in another game, as that would just leave me confused, asking why that/those charts are allowed too.

Of course it cancels out. Everyone gets 999 rings (who is seriously competing), so the rings have no effect on the rankings of the chart at all. Regardless to the point, as I've said before, the maxxed out rings are not the only factor at hand here. By your logic you could say we should ban Wing Fortress time charts because the last 50 seconds (I actually have no idea how long) are exactly the same as Sky Chase or Bridge 2 and leave for no competition. Which is of course, stupid. The competition is still there for score, and isn't for rings.

Also I still haven't figured out my reasoning for rings not being allowed, but it has nothing to do with it being pointless or easy :\

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2010, 05:01:16 am »
When are the Sonic 4 ep 1 charts are going to be up? I have some times, rings and scores to post. It looks like everyone is ready.

and by the way this is just for ep 1 or for the whole Sonic 4 game or just for ep 1 right now?

If you hadn't noticed, we are discussing what the charts should contain. Be patient.

And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

I don't think it cancels out, or else i wouldn't've brought the point up. I want someone to explain why that we can use a method that is allowed in one chart, but not another. And do not bring up a precedent in another game, as that would just leave me confused, asking why that/those charts are allowed too.

Of course it cancels out. Everyone gets 999 rings (who is seriously competing), so the rings have no effect on the rankings of the chart at all. Regardless to the point, as I've said before, the maxxed out rings are not the only factor at hand here. By your logic you could say we should ban Wing Fortress time charts because the last 50 seconds (I actually have no idea how long) are exactly the same as Sky Chase or Bridge 2 and leave for no competition. Which is of course, stupid. The competition is still there for score, and isn't for rings.

Also I still haven't figured out my reasoning for rings not being allowed, but it has nothing to do with it being pointless or easy :\

Actually no, WF Times are fine because there is some respctible amount of the level that can be competitive, i.e., before the boss. Having no effect on the category charts leaves a redundancy if it is easily obtained. And don't go pointing out stuff like GH1 in Sonic 1 and what not, because those do require some effort and research, where as levels like CS1 and, say for instance, Hidden Island 1 in SRA are levels which require no effort, and i am against them being up because of the sheer fact that they require no effort/research at all (there's the reasoning for rings for you). Mind you, the score attack becomes one which involves whoever can find the correct slot machine to use and how fast/patient/lucky they are. So in turn, the slot machine does have an effect on the chart in question, in that the best scores will have a high 900 value for the rings. So the slot machine and rings will become a dependency in the score attack. Which leads me back to my main point.
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Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2010, 05:37:20 am »
So you're trying to tell me a level that is luck dependant is fine. A level that has major parts of the level being non competitive is fine. And a level that requires next to no research is fine. But a combination of these isn't? What....the fuck.

But yeah being uninteresting, effortless and requiring no research are all points of opinion. And not tracking charts because some of us think it is "too easy/boring/pointless" is rather pathetic.

Mind you, the score attack becomes one which involves whoever can find the correct slot machine to use and how fast/patient/lucky they are. So in turn, the slot machine does have an effect on the chart in question, in that the best scores will have a high 900 value for the rings. So the slot machine and rings will become a dependency in the score attack. Which leads me back to my main point.

The slot machine is a scalper, and scalping is allowed. Within a time limit, and so long as it doesn't reach infinite it still has competitive value. Both of these criteria are met. This isn't just thoery either, doing runs in practise it has quite a large competitive value, I've mentioned before it tests skill to get to the machine quickly, patience to run through the slot machine several times for a good score, and bravery to keep entering till time is almost up.

Also I'm starting to get the feeling it'd be easier to back myself up if I was in favour of allowing ring charts too. So I might as well put that on the table then too, though I might back down from that quite quickly. Under a time limit, again, rings don't go to -infinite- they just get maxed at 999. We track plenty of other stats that would be easier than getting 999, so why not this too?

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2010, 06:09:19 am »
So you're trying to tell me a level that is luck dependant is fine. A level that has major parts of the level being non competitive is fine. And a level that requires next to no research is fine. But a combination of these isn't? What....the fuck.

I never said any of this, in fact, i recall saying that a level has to have a respectable amount of competitiveness, not that a level with a lot of non-competitiveness throught it; the research point is the fact of all other Time Attacks on this site, like the hard levels which you actually have to practice different methods in order to get the proper run down. The combination problem, was that combining something we allow, with something we disallow makes the resultant chart allowed. Not combining one of these, i may have been sidetracked and implied what you mentioned, not too sure where i said that and it is totally not what i ment.

But yeah being uninteresting, effortless and requiring no research are all points of opinion. And not tracking charts because some of us think it is "too easy/boring/pointless" is rather pathetic.

'Unintersting' charts are a matter of opinion, and are not a valid argument in charts. For example: People find Rivals uninteresting, but yet the charts are there. That reason is stupid and, as you said, pathetic.

Pointless it not necassarily pathetic, as it addresses and makes sure we don't make the same mistake we made in Sonic 06/SRA in listing every single fucking chart possible. Mind the swearing, i just hate SRA Extra >_> If the chart is necassary so that we have an all-round competitive game, then we should put it in; If the chart is pointless and would possibly stop people submitting to that game (i'll use SRA Extra for an example here), then we should not put it in.

The 'no research' point relates to the above, in that they're just chart fillers, and that it will draw attention away from other charts. That's all i'm brining up in that point.

Mind you, the score attack becomes one which involves whoever can find the correct slot machine to use and how fast/patient/lucky they are. So in turn, the slot machine does have an effect on the chart in question, in that the best scores will have a high 900 value for the rings. So the slot machine and rings will become a dependency in the score attack. Which leads me back to my main point.

The slot machine is a scalper, and scalping is allowed. Within a time limit, and so long as it doesn't reach infinite it still has competitive value. Both of these criteria are met. This isn't just thoery either, doing runs in practise it has quite a large competitive value, I've mentioned before it tests skill to get to the machine quickly, patience to run through the slot machine several times for a good score, and bravery to keep entering till time is almost up.

Also I'm starting to get the feeling it'd be easier to back myself up if I was in favour of allowing ring charts too. So I might as well put that on the table then too, though I might back down from that quite quickly. Under a time limit, again, rings don't go to -infinite- they just get maxed at 999. We track plenty of other stats that would be easier than getting 999, so why not this too?
[/quote]

Personally, it goes back what i said earlier:

Easy to max, no competitive value, pointless 0p chart >_>

Just to note, i ment site-competitive. It becomes a redundant chart, stuff like MG1 in Sonic 3, and Shamar Day 1 in SUWii actually require effort to pick up rings, rather than just having a slot machine decide how long till you get all the rings. The rings aren't gonna be allowed, i'd say save your effort and try to get CS1 Scores up.

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Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2010, 06:35:19 am »
Just to note, i ment site-competitive. It becomes a redundant chart, stuff like MG1 in Sonic 3, and Shamar Day 1 in SUWii actually require effort to pick up rings, rather than just having a slot machine decide how long till you get all the rings. The rings aren't gonna be allowed, i'd say save your effort and try to get CS1 Scores up.

You make it seem like the whole level is just a slot machine, and nothing else. It still takes effort to get there, it still takes effort to keep on going back into the machine. Not as much as Marble Garden 1, sure, but 8 Hidden Palace Knuckles doesn't take as much effort as 1:34 Doomsday either. So are we gonna scrap that chart too? Of course not, it is still a stat which requires skill to complete.

Pointless it not necassarily pathetic, as it addresses and makes sure we don't make the same mistake we made in Sonic 06/SRA in listing every single fucking chart possible. Mind the swearing, i just hate SRA Extra >_> If the chart is necassary so that we have an all-round competitive game, then we should put it in; If the chart is pointless and would possibly stop people submitting to that game (i'll use SRA Extra for an example here), then we should not put it in.

This is actually a good point. I can see how the overload of charts can force competition out of such games. However this is an entirely different case, the word pointless might be related between them, but it is in a very different context. Actually the chart isn't even pointless anyway! Ahhhhh I am out of words I'm afraid, I don't know how to get my point across anymore. Someone else voice their opinion on the matter please because I get the feeling Cruizer and I are gonna keep going around in circles if we go on any longer <_<

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2010, 06:47:15 am »
Just to note, i ment site-competitive. It becomes a redundant chart, stuff like MG1 in Sonic 3, and Shamar Day 1 in SUWii actually require effort to pick up rings, rather than just having a slot machine decide how long till you get all the rings. The rings aren't gonna be allowed, i'd say save your effort and try to get CS1 Scores up.

You make it seem like the whole level is just a slot machine, and nothing else. It still takes effort to get there, it still takes effort to keep on going back into the machine. Not as much as Marble Garden 1, sure, but 8 Hidden Palace Knuckles doesn't take as much effort as 1:34 Doomsday either. So are we gonna scrap that chart too? Of course not, it is still a stat which requires skill to complete.

Okay so i just played CS1, and i can see what you mean by this point. Seems like it does require effort and skill to slot again. This swayed my opinion on it due to the fact that i was convinced that the scaping in this level was easy. >_>
|Just to note for future games, if scalping becomes too easy, then it shouldn't be allowed. This is a threshold issue, not whether or not scalping is illegal or not.

 
Pointless it not necassarily pathetic, as it addresses and makes sure we don't make the same mistake we made in Sonic 06/SRA in listing every single fucking chart possible. Mind the swearing, i just hate SRA Extra >_> If the chart is necassary so that we have an all-round competitive game, then we should put it in; If the chart is pointless and would possibly stop people submitting to that game (i'll use SRA Extra for an example here), then we should not put it in.

This is actually a good point. I can see how the overload of charts can force competition out of such games. However this is an entirely different case, the word pointless might be related between them, but it is in a very different context. Actually the chart isn't even pointless anyway! Ahhhhh I am out of words I'm afraid, I don't know how to get my point across anymore. Someone else voice their opinion on the matter please because I get the feeling Cruizer and I are gonna keep going around in circles if we go on any longer <_<

I don't think context would be the right word, but that's a point of semantics since i know what you mean. I guess it is possible that it becomes game affecting once the pointless chart size gets enough. Again, it depends on how many there are, i.e., another threshold.
I guess that's the end of this circle, don't you? :P

EDIT: Uh, just to point out, no-one has said much on the Super Sonic topic. More specifically, AD hasn't said anything on the matter. What is happening?
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Offline Magnezone

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2010, 10:40:50 am »
Quote
Just to note for future games, if scalping becomes too easy, then it shouldn't be allowed. This is a threshold issue, not whether or not scalping is illegal or not.

I would say it's never actually easy and instead, usually, a giant pain in the ass wherever it has to be done, but at the same time it ends up separating competitors that have gone through the ritual of enduring doing the same thing for 8-9 minutes and hitting the goal within 5 seconds of time-over from those who haven't.

Furthermore, in the case of Hill Top-type levels, think about how most of the levels in genesis land are score attacked (ie get all the rings, combo some enemies, and finish) and then think about how Hill Top-type levels in genesis land are score attacked (ie 10 minutes minus fastest time worth of infinite combo points, get some rings (unless Sonic 2, then get all the rings for the all rings bonus), get OTHER combo points from other sources, finish before time-over) and you'll see the gigantic difference where time actually matters when you're doing Hill Top type levels compared to other levels and puts it more in the vein of levels that score attack by achieving the maximum time bonus in addition to getting a bunch of rings and comboing stuff. That's why I appreciate their unholy existence. They break up the monotony of having the same strategy for all levels in a particular game.

Offline DsSaster

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2010, 01:49:58 pm »
I thought that the difficulty of obtaining a stat was not a factor in whether or not it should be withheld?  I mean seriously, look at Grand Metropolis Team Chaotix Rings...you don't even have a time limit for that!
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Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2010, 04:15:47 pm »
E.G.G. Station 3'19"62

My internet finally kept it together to upload another vid. Ya'll should watch this one, the strategy ain't what you think.

Offline SonicandInuyasha

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2010, 04:59:22 pm »
How will score attack works
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Offline werster

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2010, 07:42:53 pm »
Mad Gear Boss: 41"65 This one actually meets my standards...

Offline SonicAD

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2010, 02:16:20 pm »
So let's update:

Times:
Splash Hill 1
Splash Hill 2
Splash Hill 3
Casino Street 1
Casino Street 2
Casino Street 3
Lost Labyrinth 1
Lost Labyrinth 2
Lost Labyrinth 3
Mad Gear 1
Mad Gear 2
Mad Gear 3

Rings and scores:
As above, minus Casino Street 1

Bosses:
Splash Hill Boss
Casino Street Boss
Lost Labyrinth Boss
Mad Gear Boss
E.G.G. Station

Special - Times:
Special Stage 1-7

Special - Rings:
Special Stage 1-7

Special - Score:
Special Stage 1-7


Aaaaaand ok. People want Super Sonic. So let's trial it. Times and Scores only.

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2010, 02:19:35 pm »
^Uhh...do you mean in the same chart, or separate divisions?
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Offline SonicAD

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2010, 02:20:03 pm »
Seperate

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #111 on: October 24, 2010, 02:23:27 pm »
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Offline SonicandInuyasha

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #112 on: October 24, 2010, 02:30:57 pm »
I got a new save file for the Super Sonic times and scores.
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Offline Parax

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #113 on: October 24, 2010, 02:37:12 pm »
since in IRC we're talking about including boss rings/scores, I'll repost what I said in IRC: why don't we merge the current bosses category with times and then add bosses to rings/scores? Same could go for Specials too I guess but there's more of an argument for them since they don't even play slightly similar to normal stages.

Also - rules? What are the rules on using time attack/score attack modes? There are two points that should be covered in the rules:

-Time Attack mode does not have checkpoints. That means if you do a TA in Score Attack mode, you can abuse checkpoints, which wouldn't be possible in Time Attack mode. Plus, times you achieve in Score Attack mode are not uploaded to the leaderboards which makes checking BS more difficult. :P
-Time Attack mode converts 1ups to 10 rings. This means that TA mode will almost always have more rings than SA mode.

I'm in favor of requiring TA mode for TAs and allowing use of either mode for RAs, personally.

Offline flying fox

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2010, 02:44:49 pm »
since in IRC we're talking about including boss rings/scores, I'll repost what I said in IRC: why don't we merge the current bosses category with times and then add bosses to rings/scores? Same could go for Specials too I guess but there's more of an argument for them since they don't even play slightly similar to normal stages.

Also - rules? What are the rules on using time attack/score attack modes? There are two points that should be covered in the rules:

-Time Attack mode does not have checkpoints. That means if you do a TA in Score Attack mode, you can abuse checkpoints, which wouldn't be possible in Time Attack mode. Plus, times you achieve in Score Attack mode are not uploaded to the leaderboards which makes checking BS more difficult. :P
-Time Attack mode converts 1ups to 10 rings. This means that TA mode will almost always have more rings than SA mode.

I'm in favor of requiring TA mode for TAs and allowing use of either mode for RAs, personally.

I agree with all of this. So what the chart would like this: Times, Rings, Scores and Special - Times? Just a suggestion, I don't know how you do the charts :/

Offline Luxray

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2010, 02:54:17 pm »
Same could go for Specials too I guess but there's more of an argument for them since they don't even play slightly similar to normal stages.

Hey while we're at it, why not convert all games to Sonic '06 style charts! [/sarcasm]
Those are horrible charts coupled with a horrible game, and we all know it. Frankly we should try to not make everything fall under "Times/Rings/Scores". We have categories and divisions for a reason. I'm not sure why we can't just have different division names under the categories to make things much easier and neater.
Say:



Sonic 4
->Times
 ->Sonic
  ->[Levels]
 ->Super Sonic
  ->[Levels]

->Rings
 ->Sonic
  ->[Levels]

->Scores
 ->Sonic
  ->[Levels]
 ->Super Sonic
  ->[Levels]

->Bosses
 ->Times
  ->[Levels]
 ->Rings
  ->[Levels]
 ->Scores
  ->[Levels]

->Special
 ->Times
  ->[Levels]
 ->Rings
  ->[Levels]
 ->Scores
  ->[Levels]

->Freestyle
 ->Sonic(iOS)
  ->Casino Street 2
  -> Lost Labyrinth 2
 ->Super Sonic(iOS)
  ->Casino Street 2
  ->Lost Labyrinth 2

:<


Each heirarchy being:
Game
->Category
 ->Division
  ->Level

Edit: Shit forgot about the totals.
Um...i guess for Boss/Special we have 3 different totals, but not a grand total (That is, Total - Total).
 Times/Scores we have Total - Sonic and Total - Super Sonic, with a Total - Total.
 And Rings obviously just Total - Rings.



Much simpler than having 9 fucking categories. Also it should be noted that in all Boss levels, super sonic cannot be acheived, so this actually works in this case >_>

Also - rules? What are the rules on using time attack/score attack modes? There are two points that should be covered in the rules:

-Time Attack mode does not have checkpoints. That means if you do a TA in Score Attack mode, you can abuse checkpoints, which wouldn't be possible in Time Attack mode. Plus, times you achieve in Score Attack mode are not uploaded to the leaderboards which makes checking BS more difficult. :P
-Time Attack mode converts 1ups to 10 rings. This means that TA mode will almost always have more rings than SA mode.

I'm in favor of requiring TA mode for TAs and allowing use of either mode for RAs, personally.

Score attack mode for Scores only.
Rings in either Score or Time
Times in Time Attack mode only.

Simple as that.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 03:05:28 pm by Luxray »
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Offline SonicandInuyasha

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #116 on: October 24, 2010, 03:35:14 pm »
why scores for the Special Stages?
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Offline Groudon

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #117 on: October 24, 2010, 03:36:01 pm »
Probably because the game saves your score.

Offline SonicandInuyasha

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2010, 03:43:38 pm »
Oh I see! I'm going to hate getting a good score on Special Stage 5 and 7.
I love to play Mario and Sonic games with a mix of Donkey Kong and Kirby games. Yes I'm a Nintendo nerd.

Offline Parax

Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition
« Reply #119 on: October 24, 2010, 04:02:32 pm »
Same could go for Specials too I guess but there's more of an argument for them since they don't even play slightly similar to normal stages.

Hey while we're at it, why not convert all games to Sonic '06 style charts! [/sarcasm]
Those are horrible charts coupled with a horrible game, and we all know it. Frankly we should try to not make everything fall under "Times/Rings/Scores". We have categories and divisions for a reason. I'm not sure why we can't just have different division names under the categories to make things much easier and neater.

I didn't suggest that because that's how 06 did it. I suggested that because I just plain don't see the point of having a separate bosses division in this case specifically. I don't think there's necessarily a problem with which charts are tracked in 06, for the record, anyway. The charts look bad because there is no organization in them. Organization is the only reason to split Bosses away from other stages, but with a game like Sonic 4 I just don't think it's necessary because there is a perfectly clean way to organize the charts with Bosses mixed into stages - we'd have for example Splash Hill 1/2/3 then Splash Hill Boss, then Casino Street then etc. This gives us the additional pro of having a much easier way to set up tracking Rings/Scores on bosses, which is just about impossible to do under the normal Bosses category. The only con I can think of at all is that it's inconsistent with the rest of the site, but I think having rules that work for each game individually is more important than having the same rules for every game. (not to say consistency isn't important, but making sure each individual game has the best possible competitive environment is more important.)

You're saying we shouldn't have everything fall under Times/Rings/Score. My question is why not? You keep saying that but you haven't explained exactly why it's a bad thing to track times in the times division and scores in the scores division (which is essentially all that this is). I had other things to say here as well but I won't because I don't remember exactly what's been posted in the past and I'd have to reread the thread to make sure I don't post anything wrong.

I think, if we are going to be the authoritative Sonic competition/records-keeping site, that it's important for us to track everything that can reasonably be tracked. I guess the problem is the existence of Overall rankings, period. Overall is the reason that there's any kind of argument for there being too many charts. It's also the only reason that tracking DLC is so damn complicated and why it's so difficult to handle version differences, among other things. :/ But meh, that's a different argument... there's a lot of things I could say about the site besides that but I'll save it for another thread since it's not really relevant here.

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