ATTN: supersonic917


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Offline Thorn

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ATTN: supersonic917
« on: December 28, 2013, 12:16:16 AM »
After you first submitted your Windy Hill 1 Normal time for the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World, you were sent a PM (see the upper-left corner of the site) telling you that your time was revoked due to the corresponding video using Super Sonic, which is not permitted. You then proceeded to resubmit the same time and the same video. Please provide an explanation for your actions.

Additionally, another user, htan, has linked to your YouTube channel for submissions, and a quick check of identifying information suggests that he and you may in fact be the same person. We would like to know if/why you have two accounts on the site.

We require an explanation for both of these things before your ability to submit statistics will be reinstated.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
I have two sonic center accounts right now. The first one is htan and the second one is supersonic917. I would like to remove htan's account because that was my old account and I try to change the username but it didn't work. I've also been banned from the sonic center. Is there any way I can fix this at all?

Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 01:59:20 PM »
I don't remember receiving any request from you for a username change. Admins can perform the change fairly effortlessly.

I've already explained how you can be unbanned — by explaining both things I asked about. You've given me an explanation for the username, but I still need an explanation for why you resubmitted a time I removed after I PMed you to say that the time was in violation of the Competition Rules as shown in your included YouTube video.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Offline htan

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 02:08:15 PM »
I accidentally resubmitted the time. It wasn't suppose to be super sonic.

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 02:22:27 PM »
I accidentally resubmitted the time. It wasn't suppose to be super sonic. I also accidentally posted this on my old account.

Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 02:24:29 PM »
Okay, I've moved all times from htan over to supersonic917. supersonic917 is unbanned, but htan will remain banned, and the expectation is that you will be supersonic917 from here on out. The previous 916 Super Sonics didn't give us much trouble, so hopefully this is the last issue.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 02:25:37 PM »
OK. Thanks. :D

Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 02:37:12 PM »
While it's on my mind, can you tell us how your Tropical Resort 1 time in Sonic Colors (Wii) is four seconds faster than anybody else? The level's pretty well-optimized, so I need to know that the time you submitted as htan wasn't a typo.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 02:50:08 PM »
That video. I used a 3D in 2D skip glitch 0:30 at this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfpO_t4MUZQ) to save some some time. DarkSpinesSonic was the one who found this time saver. Then I did a loop skip at 0:42 to save some time.

Offline InferSaime

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 05:09:54 PM »
Excuse me from posting without permission. But I would like to ask why supersonic917 didn't submit some of his times on youtube and instead submitted a worse time than what he has? For example he submitted 56.33 submtted (http://www.soniccenter.org/members/supersonic917/sonic_colors_wii/times/aquarium_park_1/sonic) although on his youtube he has 53.49 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMbPAN735Vc). Again sorry for posting without permission.

Offline Chackoman15379

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2013, 10:31:30 AM »
ALso forgive me but when i clicked the link and looked at his channel and TSC stat they were both 0:53:49
so I am very confused also if you were right then it was probably a typo


Offline dwhitethegamer

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 10:48:10 AM »
Forgive me as well.  The two that posted before me both have a point.  The rules say that proof cannot be better or worse than the time it concerns.
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Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2013, 12:02:29 PM »
InferSaime, if you looked at that 0:56:33, you'll see that it says "Submitted by an administrator" in the tooltip. The time was simply migrated over from his old account, as was already stated in this topic.

We take the Leaderboard Disputes forum very, very seriously, as it can permanently taint somebody's perception of other members. To that extent, I am aware that InferSaime is lying through his teeth when he says he is sorry for posting without permission, as at the time of his post, he was in IRC and Skype with me and was well aware that I was online and able to respond if he asked for permission. I am fairly sure he is trying to corner whom he believes to be a cheater by his own methods. Chackoman and dwhite may not have the same agenda, but I also believe that they are not sorry either, as they could have chosen not to post and they both have a record of posting in random topics at random times. With all of this in mind, the three of them are banned from posting until 2014 comes for me, and I will be speaking to InferSaime before he is unbanned.

Yes, I'm stating this publicly. I want to make it clear that this board has specific rules for a reason, and that baseless accusations will not be tolerated. Should any more concrete proof come up, I will certainly grant permission to anybody that asks for it and shows said proof, but under no means will I allow vigilante justice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 12:42:22 PM by Thorn »
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Offline flying fox

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2014, 02:52:11 PM »
Why have you been taking down some of your videos in the past couple of days?
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Offline THC98

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2014, 09:01:33 PM »
Some of us at TSC have reason to believe some of supersonic917's submitted runs are TASes based on the following things:

Comparisions between his runs and TASes:
Tropical Resort 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjF5ImOm1Ik
Aquarium Park 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLKuTU-SEbQ

Notes about his runs:
In Aquarium Park 1, he does two jumps and one boost in 5 frames, which is impossible for an human: http://imgur.com/a/NGfRF
In this same run, he also did a stomp to land in exactly the perfect spot in the next platform and did a boost in the following frame: http://imgur.com/a/F5gRw
In Starlight Carnival 5, he does 3 boosts frame perfect at 1:06. I know it doesn't really matter for the time, but it's still impossible for an human: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBw1Or6GmAY
In Asteroid Coaster 2, he did several of double A taps that are too fast for an human: at 0:23 after getting the boosts, at 0:27 and 0:36 (the homing attack to the spring) and at 0:45 (the homing attacks in the asteroids): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohFf1S4O2E

There's also another thing that should invalidate his submited times here. As said in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqsvRicOR0 , supersonic917 runs Colors in 55-60 FPS while recording (with Fraps). But according to TSC rules, the game should run at FULL speed at the whole time.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 09:20:38 PM by THC98 »

Offline Chackoman15379

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 04:20:23 PM »
You disgust me. All these accusations are ridiculous. In all ways it is possible to make these jumps but I am very angry at you.
You tell him to submit his stats to TSC only to raise accusations against him. What the hell man just ask him or something what was the point in that. Even if these runs were TASes (which they,re not) I cannot forgive the fact that you ASKED him to submit his stats...


Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 04:46:24 PM »
^ I... just... why would you post this? You were just tempbanned for posting in this topic without permission, and another admin even made a topic to remind people to talk to an admin before posting in here. Yet you come in and post again without permission to complain about somebody who created a reasonable argument against supersonic917 and got permission from me to post it. dwhitethegamer posted in here too and got another tempban for it, but he wasn't directly saying that people were outright wrong as you are. Between the random posts that add no value to topics and this transgression, you can consider your posting privileges revoked. You can submit all of the statistics you want, but you may not speak on this forum again.

For everybody else reading this topic, let me be absolutely clear, as I've been getting messages outside of the forum regarding this topic. My assistance with getting supersonic917's account situated and dispelling the false evidence against him is in no way a defense of possible cheating. I'd hesitate to say we have a "justice system" on this site, but for what we do have, we always give the chance for the accused to make a case against whatever solid evidence we've accrued. I support people like THC98 who are able to create hard evidence such as that, and I support any accused that can give an explanation that passes muster. I do not support some of the tactics I've seen in TSC-related Skype conversations, however, as they all banked on the fact that the TAS videos he did not submit to TSC are proof that his TSC stats are TASed. THC98 was the one who looked at what was actually submitted to TSC and created a reasonable argument, then received permission from me — by proxy, but permission nevertheless — to present it here. InferSaime took it upon himself to take what he saw as a small inconsistency and use it as evidence without permission, and it turned out that he was not only wrong, but that he led supersonic917 to remove some of his videos, further obfuscating the truth. He was tempbanned for this.

supersonic917, I do expect a response to flying fox's question and THC98's evidence, as it's looking very likely that illegitimate activity is going on.

The rest of you, don't expect to stay here if you're going to create full-on witch hunts. Make a legitimate case before making an argument to an administrator instead of afterwards, as we're not magical beings with privileged knowledge of every detail of the 51 games and two DLC expansions we track on the site. We need facts, not possibilities. You can present those possibilities for us to research, of course, but I will not tolerate large groups of people yelling at me to take action without hard proof.

EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that there is an input buffer at the end of a stomp, so jumping/boosting within one frame of the end of a stomp is actually a cakewalk. However, THC98's point about the pixel-perfect landing still stands.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 04:19:00 PM by Thorn »
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 02:50:02 PM »
Hello thorn. Incase you didn't notice, all of my sonic colors speed runs aren't tas. I know that thc98 has evidence to proof that i have did a tas. but i use fraps to record all my gameplay. but now, fraps is somehow dropping my games fps when i record. now i switch to dxtory. i use that program to record now. it's much better than fraps. and the aquarium park act 1 speed run jump (time 53:49) at 0:20 isn't tas. it's done by keyboard. even this guy could do it. He played it on wii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdQUhHMy48). i didn't use wii controller or connect my gamecube controller to my pc. and the stomp (http://imgur.com/a/F5gRw) is randomly pressed. i thought that i wasn't going to make it but i did. and then i randomly again pressed the boost button which gave me a lucky save. in the stralight carnival run at 1:06, i use press rapidly on the keyboard at the right time to boost. in the asteroid coaster run, i tap the keyboard twice at 0:23. SO this is all the evidence to prove that my sonic colors runs aren't tas.

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 02:53:02 PM »
i forgot to tell you one more thing. some of my sonic colors run havent restart. I have to exit the stage because the dolphin emulator keeps on freezing when i paused the game and restart. so the only way i can get it to work is to pause the game and hit exit and  restart the level.

Offline Parax

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 03:05:45 PM »
Did the framerate drop below 60 at some point during any of your runs? If so, those stats are invalid, whether they're TASed or not.

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 03:25:04 PM »
no, i use dxtory to record and it's running at full 60fps.

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 03:26:41 PM »
Here are all my Dolphin emulator settings

http://www.mediafire.com/download/nzc94eg3178ju9d/image1.zip

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 03:27:46 PM »
If you still think I'm tasing but i'm not, then i'll play this game on the wii version instead.

Offline THC98

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2014, 07:00:47 PM »
Supersonic917, you didn't actually answer my questions. I said that you did 3 button presses in an interval of 5 frames (0.16 seconds in Colors), which is impossible in a real time speedrun. Can you explain that?
Also, you didn't answer flyingfox's question either. Why are you deleting your speedrun videos in the past couple of days, including Aquarium Park 1?
One last thing: in the Dolphin settings pictures you sent, you didn't screenshot the box where you can change the framerate, enable/disable Dual Core and Idle Skipping, can you send us that screenshot as well?

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2014, 11:22:18 PM »
THC98, the 3 button I pressed at 0:16 is possible. This guy could do it at 0:18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdQUhHMy48). He did it somewhere around 6-7 frames. And flying fox, I've been taking down some of my video because I feel like I'll get banned in TSC. People think I'm TASing but I'm really not TASing.

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2014, 11:27:58 PM »
And here's Dolphin emulator config settings. I accidentally left this out.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/xc6g21aai8ya5pf/image2.rar

Offline THC98

Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2014, 01:34:39 PM »
I was asked to reorganize all arguments and evidence in 1 post and number them so supersonic917 could provide his answers for them number by number, so here they are:

1. In Aquarium Park 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLKuTU-SEbQ comparison video with TAS, supersonic917 deleted the original after my first post) you do a double jump and a boost in 5 frames, which means 3 different inputs in a time of less than 0.2 seconds of which the first 2 require you to press the same button, as seen here: http://imgur.com/a/NGfRF, this is impossible for a human. You replied saying that another guy could also do that, in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdQUhHMy48. The person in the video however did these actions in 10 frames as displayed here: http://imgur.com/a/8bul6, which is twice as long as your inputs making this argument invalid. Can you explain us exactly how you were able to do these inputs?
2. In Starlight Carnival 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBw1Or6GmAY) you did 3 boosts in 6 frames as shown here: http://imgur.com/a/MBOsS. These are frame perfect button presses of the same button and are too fast for a human, so you claim that you pressed the button really fast is impossible. Please explain how you were able to do these inputs.
3. In Asteroid Coaster 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohFf1S4O2E) you did a frame perfect homing attack (first frame the targeting system activates) onto a spring twice as shown in these pictures http://imgur.com/WBuOJ3r http://imgur.com/9FmFiz9. You replied saying you pressed the same button twice really fast, but not only would you need to have borderline impossible speed, but you would have to time the homing attack precisely when the targeting system activates, which depends on your distance from the spring and the location, so it can only be timed correctly if you jump at the same location every time, which is impossible for a human (spamming the button hoping to get lucky is not an alternative in this situation, because it would activate a double jump). How were you able to do these inputs?

Any other arguments we had gameplay wise like the aiming of the jump in point 1 and the frame perfect homing attacks into the asteroids we have not included in this list, because they would be possible for humans with very lucky aiming and button mashing which, while statistically very unlikely, is not 100% impossible. Same thing goes for his claim to perform these actions on a keyboard, highly unlikely, but to our knowledge not impossible.

Supersonic917, could you please provide anwsers for each of these points seperately?

Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2014, 01:44:42 PM »
Let me add that while most of Tales' points are reiterated from before, they are the ones with which he is still not satisfied, and I agree with his inquiry. In particular, "I hammered the button really fast" does not satisfy the Starlight Carnival boost issue, as in a 30 FPS game, that's a rate of 15 button presses per second. I have enough Mario Party experience to know that this wouldn't be practical at all nor can one simply twitch fast enough; most button presses of this speed are done in a horizontal motion that also grazes other buttons.

At this point, I see two possibilities: TASing, or assigning multiple possible keys to one button input. Both of these are illegal via our emulator rules.

Quote from: Competition Rules
* You may use any emulator for competition; however, any action performed during the run (be it an in-game action or use of an emulator function) that cannot be replicated on console voids your stat.
...
* Any game running on a PC or emulator must perform at full speed while playing the game you're submitting for (60 FPS in most cases). The exception is if lag is caused by the game, rather than by bad hardware or emulation.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
This is really hard for me to explain. How about this. I won't be submitting anymore Sonic Colors Wii stats to the TSC anymore. I'll only be posting Unleashed and Generations.

Offline Thorn

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Re: ATTN: supersonic917
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2014, 04:33:56 PM »
^ That doesn't fly. You are managing something that humans theoretically shouldn't be able to do. If it's hard to explain, then just try your best.
<RPGnutter> Well I think your reasoning was dumb, so you get sassed
<RPGnutter> Thats how it works

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