How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?


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Offline finalrush7_

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I really want to get the Final Rush m1 time record, but seeing as I just can't seem to do the level in one part, I always have to resort on checkpoints, well, 3 of them. Main problem is, you have to spindash after 2 of them, that's where I lose a lot of time. I'm thinking nearly half a second....

(The Sonic Adventure 2 discussion topic. Powered by Paragod, Brian and finalrush7)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 06:20:22 AM by PoT »

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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 02:59:25 PM »
so you are the guy who wants to beat me!

Checkpoints do waste about half a second, maybe a tenth more. I got 2:15 without restarting at any of them, so if you want to beat me you will probably have to do the same. maybe you can sneak by with (one) checkpoint, but you will have to be extremely fast and I do not really recommend it because if you do beat me that way my record will still be better than yours :P

It varies though.. for example on city escape there is a boost pad right in front of the first checkpoint, you lose probably only a tenth of a second if you restart at that one cause you can quickly roll into it. I like how most levels require a checkpoint-free run though, levels like metal harbor, iron gate, prison lane, and many others are completely impossible to beat even if you restart at just one check.

You seem to run very fast and do not stop, do you really think you can challenge me for the platinum top?

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 03:20:55 PM »
Ahh! Paragod, the expert of Final Rush!
First of all, thanks for the response.
Second, I'm improving on almost a daily basis. Just 10 mins ago I improved my time a little and am now at 2:19:24. I got this time with two small mistakes and respawning from 3 checkpoints.  Each mistake cost me about 0.5 seconds. Add the 3 checkpoints and we have a loss of ~2.5 seconds. That would mean I could come to an 2:16:xx (which is your video time). That's my maximum for the near future(when I'm able to do it checkpoint-freely), I guess. Who knows, maybe in a few months I'll be able to beat you, or even discover another shortcut that leads me to the first place!

Good thing SM discovered that awesome 99 lives trick in Rouge's SH m2!!

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 06:59:58 PM »
you have done very well for a little under a month of practice, you are now getting very close. But of course the closer you get the more precise and error-free you have to be, which takes a lot of time and effort. I like your "I WILL get the record" attitude, thinking like that usually enables you to get what you want.

I think you should cut it down to using 1 check for now. Use the mid level check, the one you should be hitting at around 1:25-1:28, that is the only one I ever used. from there you can work towards a checkless run at your own pace.

keep it up! I enjoy checking out your stat progress or progress reports you post here, maybe once you beat me one of us can try to perfect the level which I estimate is around - 2:12, but you have to pull off many daring tricks that are hard to do consistently, all in a clean flawless run. and of course, this is a huge level so who knows where there may be a shortcut hiding... maybe the level will go below 2:10 or 2:00 someday, nobody knows til the cut(s) are found, if they exist.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008, 07:09:33 PM »
Yeah, there's still thing I only get to work very rarely, jumping from the rail right before the 1:06-1:08 checkpoint. I'm starting to think it's luck-based. <_<
Well, first thing to do is to beat Zealous, which shouldn't be too difficult now, then next thing I'll do is to make a vid of my in case anyone wants proof or w/e, which will probably be pretty soon as I'm sure I can improve a quarter of a second even with all 3 checkpoints used.
THEN, I'll start to speed run it with as few checkpoints as possible.

See ya at the top, I guess! *goes watching your vid again*
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 09:21:01 PM by finalrush7_ »

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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 07:20:45 PM »
you mean jumping from rail to rail, instead of jumping from rail to platform then the rail like I did? that is kinda tricky, you need a good amount of speed. I stopped doing it because a lot of times the game would glitch and put me on the rail for a split second and fall off for no reason.. I should not have stopped because I definitely lose at least 3/4 of a second if not more.

sounds like you have a good game plan, personally I will believe you without a video even if you get something crazy like 2:13, but you should still make one at that point just cause me and others would enjoy watching such a great run.

I still await you at the top.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 07:43:00 PM »
No, what I meant was the rail jump you do upwards at 1:37 in your vid(vid time, not game time). I can only do that like 20% of the time. Also, the rail to rail you mentioned before I can do pretty consistently, it's just that most of the time after I land on the platform Sonic does his sommersault attack, which causes massive time loss. If I only knew what causes this, I could save some time there.
Also, I got another question; That part at 1:59 when you jump on the rail. I always just fall through the whole rail and die, how can I avoid not falling through the rail and hitting it?


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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008, 08:48:59 PM »
hmm, I dunno why the part at 1:37 would be hard, it is pretty much the same thing as the rail right before it (1:33) what are you doing to mess up? the only problems I ever had there was hitting the wrong spot and sliding down backwards or not having enough speed. if that is the case try using a homing attack instead of the bounce ball, it might be more consistent for you and it is not really much slower.

the somersault thing can be annoying in lots of levels, usually what causes that is hitting the B button right before doing something else.. kinda hard to explain but lets say you are about to hit a spring, and you accidently hold down the B button, but not long enough to charge a spindash, you will hit the spring without spindashing or rolling.. and when you land on something solid you will automatically do a roll. I am not sure where you may be doing this in final rush(it never happened to me) but try to be aware and careful of the B button and it should not happen.

At 1:59 this happens to me occasionally when my attention drops a little bit, you are simply using the jump/bounce ball too late, try doing it sooner and you should easily get it every time.

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 12:43:23 AM »
this may or may not make you happy, but you have encouraged me to play final rush today...

check out my new time!

I put the handful of new touchups and slight strategy changes into play, and finally got a great time cut! those 2 hours were so tiring, I easily get sick of making stupid mistakes over and over.. I had the greated run ever(1:24 on the mid check!) and actually made a decent finish without screwing up at all(no respawns)


I am so glad I finally got an improvement, the 2:15 had so many outdated techniques which made me badly want at least 2:14, but I almost got down to my predicted max!

best of all, I got it on video so you can enhance your strategies a little bit(assuming you do not already know what I do) I will probably get it uploaded tomorrow.

Offline Jawzunx

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 03:18:05 AM »
check out my new time!

Wow, you just beat your time by two seconds. Awesome!
This is a stage I really like a lot, so I'm gonna try to improve my time too, as soon as I can get a new TV. At least I want to beat Zealous because I'm starting to think my time is bad :P

Also Paragod, what do you think that can be the max time for this level?
still can't believe what I did in 2007

Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 03:44:48 AM »
thanks, just wait til you see the video. its not hyper perfect but I did some tricks that look pretty cool, for example a few rails mid level I did a spindash plus jump/bounce ball instead of just jumping w/o the spindash and at one part it enables me to jump to a higher platform that saves a lot of time, but it can be hard to do.

I had thought around 2:12 would be perfect before, but with a few tiny discoveries I now say 2:10 is max, but as always that is the kind of time that will drive you crazy trying to get cause perfection on final rush is nothing but frustration and nervousness once you get a good run going til mid-check. For me anyway :P 2:11 would be a more reasonably possible target.

your time is not bad at all of course but with your on-par-with-me-or-better skill you can definitely take your time lower, as low as me if you wanted to.  feel free to join in on the fun whenever you can.. SA2 sonic levels need as much competition as possible! and beating Zealous is a good accomplishment. speaking of him.., it is a shame he is not around these days, he could probably make a comback.. he held the record for 4 years prior to me taking it!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 04:06:49 AM by Paragod »

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 08:50:33 AM »
Wow, great job in getting that time, I knew you could still improve, but by two whole seconds?!! Congrats!
Good to see competition at least.

Can't wait for the vid..!

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 09:33:08 AM »
Improved! This time I only had to use 2 out of the 3 usual checkpoints!
New time: 2:17:97!!!
I'm finally at the top with you, Paragod, even though there's still like 4 seconds difference. I couldn't get the video done because I didn't think I'd manage to break my own record, but I've still got some small proof in form of a picture:  http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/FINALRUSH.jpg

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 02:32:17 PM »
thanks :) 2 seconds is definitely the improvement this level needed. I hated having 2:15 up there knowing that there were a good amount of time savers that I had not known about at the time, and I kept getting potential 2:13's or 2:14's where I would mess up somewhere at the end, I just wanted a completion and after 2 hours I got it!

you've made a great improvement there yourself, a good second and some to take 2nd place! Good to see the checkpoints going down.. you used the 0:46 check and 1:24 check right? any others waste (more) than half a second I am sure, never even consider them.

*Paragod hands you a silver Final Rush Trophy* Zealous Defeated! A Radical accomplishment! How does it feel to be so close to the top? Are you intimidated? Confident? I will say confident based on your old stat submissions :P

Watch out for Jawzun though, he may create some chaos for you and steal your trophy. Of course that goes for me too, nothing stops the great Jawzun from taking even my gold trophy!

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2008, 02:42:30 PM »
heh, thanks for the trophy!
And btw, you were right on that B-thingy that sometimes happens with Sonic.
Idk what to say, actually, I'm just happy I finally beat the great Zealous and hope to have some great competition with you and Jawzun.
I probably won't play the level anymore until I see your vid, I need a bit rest.. Any idea when you will have it uploaded? I srsly can't wait. I'll have a vid up soon, too, and I'm sure you will profit form it because there may be some segments of the stage I can do faster than you.

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2008, 06:27:08 PM »
yeah video swapping is usually beneficial, since everybody is different we all play it our own way.. when we watch somebody else's play they usually do something different and we realize that is actually a tenth or two better and it all adds up over the course of the stage.

video is now here! after watching it I realized at the very end I was slow on the last rail, and other spots can be faster(plus I did not manage the rail to rail jump, good time lost there) but a completely perfect record would suck anyway cause nobody could beat it and they'd give up hope.. I will stay at 2:13 until you or jawzun beat me, that's when the 3 way competition begins! Maybe we can take it to 2:11, or 2:10 or beyond with better techniques!

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 07:59:50 PM »
AWESOME vid!!!! Any idea how I could save that? Maybe upload it to youtube or so..
Well, I'm really amazed and don't know what to say. My vid will be up there tomorrow or the day after.
btw, I don't think you were slow on the last rail, I usually have the same speed there

did I mention that the vid is AWESOME????

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 08:39:58 PM »
you should be able to right click it and hit save as to download the original file. I will upload it elsewhere if need be, but that site makes my videos look a lot worse than they already are.

I am glad you think it is AWESOME!! :P the hard work pays off when you can make a video others enjoy. my finger is very sore(kinda stingy) from how hard I have to hit the buttons to jump,bounce,spindash and such when I am trying to be precise. (not sure why, I just cannot play as good if I do not) That is another reason why I was so glad to finally get a completion.. I am going to take a much deserved break until you two clean up your mistakes and finally battle me at the top.


I will also be awaiting your video, so I can see what cool tricks of your own you may have.
 

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2008, 06:58:23 AM »
Alrighty, I got the vid DL'd somehow.
My one will be up today, if all goes well.

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2008, 11:12:57 AM »
3.41!

you probably would of had 2:14 with no checkpoints, depending on which ones you used..

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2008, 12:10:00 PM »
3.41? <_<

I used the 0:45-0:46, the 1:06-1:08 and 1:25-1:27 one.

Btw, VIDEO IS UP!! Not here though, because I see no reason to put in on here when your vid is not only faster, but also of a much higher quality.
And yeah, fingers are damaged <_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaIZt7pxx6s

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2008, 12:46:57 PM »
pretty good run, as expected you do a lot of things different. and, you did that last rail a lot faster than me! actually, wow, your ending was way better than any of  mine. you did a perfect bounce and landed right on the platform by that last rail without having to homing attack like I did! that is probably a second there, plus the rail to rail jump.. yeah, 2:10 can definitely happen.

From now on though, I forbid you to use the 1:07 checkpoint, you probably lost a second and a half right there alone compared to how I did it! that is just a complete waste of time that I cannot allow. just use the 0:46 check, it is not that far back.

I have questions.. at 0:36(game time) you did not do a trick off the rail, do you think it is faster that way? I tried it before but I was not sure either way.

and I have one time saver to tell you about that I did not use in my run cause it is very inconsistent and I badly wanted a completion. you know the the rail that you have to slow down on mid-way so you can hop left to the next rail?(The one you hit at 1:55 video time on your video) you can keep max speed the whole way on that rail, and instead of hopping to the rail on the left you can jump+bounce ball to it. Turns out this saves a good amount of time(possibly up to a second? I am not sure) because not only do you keep max speed on the first rail you also get a faster-than-otherwise-possible speed on the second rail.

but for me, the consistency was maybe 15% cause almost every time I would jump too high and not catch the rail in time for max speed, which of course ruins your run.
you may already know of this but if not try it out if you feel daring, maybe you will be able to do it easier. Actually I just realized you are using checkpoints at the moment so you should definitely do it, since you do not lose a whole lot til you start going for checkpoint-free runs.

your video gets a B+ (just like your ranking ;)) both me and the game will give you an A+++ when you do it without checkpoints plus I will be handing over the magical golden trophy, cause... it is obvious you will beat me big time when you pull everything off in a straight shot run.

and it sounds like you need a break too huh? :P
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 12:55:42 PM by Paragod »

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2008, 01:04:35 PM »
pretty good run, as expected you do a lot of things different. and, you did that last rail a lot faster than me! actually, wow, your ending was way better than any of  mine. you did a perfect bounce and landed right on the platform by that last rail without having to homing attack like I did! that is probably a second there, plus the rail to rail jump.. yeah, 2:10 can definitely happen.
Thanks! I'm not sure about the last rail, but the ending with that double bounce, when you have double bounced and have the max height above the platform you want to land on, do a bounce-homing attack. It's very difficult to pull of, but saves you around half 0.3-0.6 seoncds. I'm sure you can do it.

From now on though, I forbid you to use the 1:07 checkpoint, you probably lost a second and a half right there alone compared to how I did it! that is just a complete waste of time that I cannot allow. just use the 0:46 check, it is not that far back.
Yeah, but I am VERY inconsistent at the vertical rail right after the checkpoint. Didn't think it would take away 1.5 seconds though!

I have questions.. at 0:36(game time) you did not do a trick off the rail, do you think it is faster that way? I tried it before but I was not sure either way.
I'm not sure tbh. Sometimes, when you fly off that rail without trick jumping, you fly very far(to the vertical rail) but not high at all. It didn't happen in the video, it happends like every fifth time, but when it happens, it surely is at least a bit faster than your method.

and I have one time saver to tell you about that I did not use in my run cause it is very inconsistent and I badly wanted a completion. you know the the rail that you have to slow down on mid-way so you can hop left to the next rail?(The one you hit at 1:55 video time on your video) you can keep max speed the whole way on that rail, and instead of hopping to the rail on the left you can jump+bounce ball to it. Turns out this saves a good amount of time(possibly up to a second? I am not sure) because not only do you keep max speed on the first rail you also get a faster-than-otherwise-possible speed on the second rail.
I actually know about this but I never use it. I wonder why? Thanks for telling though<_<

your video gets a B+ (just like your ranking ;)) both me and the game will give you an A+++ when you do it without checkpoints plus I will be handing over the magical golden trophy, cause... it is obvious you will beat me big time when you pull everything off in a straight shot run.
Well, thank you. I've been trying really hard, and it's the only time that matters to me.



Btw, one small tip. Just before the first checkpoint (0:46), when you a near the one enmy and want to spindash-jump-bounce on then rail, jumping is not necessary because the rail is going slightly downwards. Just spindash into it. You will have a bit higher speed and won't lose time jumping. And you should definitely try (to practice) the rail-2-rail thingy..!


My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2008, 02:16:14 PM »
when i was a young n00b in final rush getting times of 2:25 or so I could do the rail-rail every time, nowadays it almost never works for some reason.

check out my new time!

you know how sometimes you time attack a level for fun w/o really trying to beat your record, just for fun and practice? well, screwing around got me a great improvement! I took your advice on spindashing the rail, and I actually managed to pull off the rail to rail! I did the ending just as good as you did, cause it turns out you can do a jump and you will land flat right on the next platform, no bouncing required. The last checkpoint was actually slower than my 2:13 (1:24.9) which proves how flawed my ending was.

I am happy with this time cause I like how it is an even .35 decimal instead of a stupid .44, and I pulled off everything except the tough jump+bounce on that rail near the end I had mentioned. This is the Gold time you must beat!

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2008, 02:43:41 PM »
STOP GETTING SO GOOD TIMES!! =D
Good job!

I've been playing FR now for almost 3 hours, still searching things that might help me save even a tenth or two, and I think I found something that might save some tenths, but I still gotta test that. I definitely need a break now, I've wasted over 300 lives alone today on Final Rush. <_<
Maybe try a little Metal Harbor. I like the stage and I can get a 1:27 constantly without practicing much... Who knows..

btw I like how the WR of FR got down by over 3 seconds in such a short amount of time. Competition ftw!

My Channel: www.youtube.com/finalrush7
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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2008, 10:38:41 PM »
sorry, I will stop playing the level but that run just kind of walked right up to me you know, it was so cool that I did not have to hurt myself to acquire it like usual.

I guarantee there is much more to be found.. 1 second.. 5? 10? 20? 50? I have been playing around seeing if you can skip the springs before the 1:24 check so you do not have to go backwards slowly down the rail, that saves many seconds if I can work something out, I have not tried every possibility yet.

competition rules huh? if you had not thrown been playing 2:15 would still be standing today and probably forever, whether it was still a record or not. Heck even if you did not make this topic it would probably still be standing. I was just watching you saying well lets see if he can do it, if he does I am done for cause I am out of practice and I can barely get under 2:20 now.

Then you posted and we got to talk a little bit so we do not appear as just a random name to each other anymore, which encouraged me to put some extra effort in to refine my ability again to what it was before, and then take the time lower with the new strategies I had found after I stopped playing.. and with some strategies from you it is now at 2:12! support from each other definitely helps out a lot as well, twice as fast to finding the perfectly straight line to beat the level as fast as possible.

Metal harbor.. yeah that level is fun, much shorter and easier than final rush. it is pretty much possible to get a flawless time there(unlike FR that had 5+ seconds of error before I lowered it) so you should be able to do well there easily given time, if you feel like it.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2008, 06:27:29 AM »
No, don't stop playing. I'm sure you could still improve a bit.
And about these spring before the middle CP. I was once able to..well, I'm not too sure what happened, but I didn't hit the last spring like I was supposed to do, so I got sent to the rail, not backwards and with speed. that would definitely save over one second, but I have no idea how that happened.
Maybe is it faster to follow the route of the 3 ring boxes and then spindash onto the rail? (I really think that would be faster)

Now if you would excuse me, I've got exactly 4.5 seconds to save! ^_^


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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2008, 05:49:30 PM »
excellent improvement! the little break you took may have helped out. you would have beaten me had I not played again..and you are very close to my 2:12 only 2.00 to go!!! :)

were you able to spindash-jump-bounce-jump the rail at the 1:06 checkpoint and land at the higher platform(instead of the spring?) that is one of the cooler tricks to do :P

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2008, 07:36:37 PM »
yep, I was able to, but here's an even cooler trick (which doesn't always work...): instead of normally jumping off that vertical rail (right after the 1:06 CP), hold forward before and while jumping. with this, sonic won't get in jumping animation (with the blue aura around him, meaning he won't be able to homing attack or bounce), but he will fly a bit faster and further. Note that you need maximum speed for this, meaning fast spindash plus bounce on the rail. It saves some time, maybe even 0.5 seconds.
I also did that bounce-rail trick on the last rail transition since I was already abusing the CP.

I more and more get the feeling that you lose around 0.7-0.8 seconds after being restored at a checkpoint and having to charge the spindash...


Did you find anything that might help cut some time?
I'm still searching, but nothing so far..
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 08:05:29 PM by PoT »

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2008, 08:57:42 PM »
i think you're right, you may lose upwards near a second for using a checkpoint, so now that you got 2:14 you should only be using the 1:24 check. I understand your new method of doing my 1:07 rail trick, and I can tell it would definitely be inonsistent for me, but I will try it out and see how it goes.

as for new shortcuts, well I have had no luck in skipping the springs. I doubt homing attacking the boxes you were talking about would be faster either :( something big or kinda big will be discovered some day.

goodluck on the gold, I am sure you can do it :) then I will try to take it from you! hahaha! ;)

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