On TSC's authority in sonic competition.


    Print

Author Topic: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.  (Read 7325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stefan

On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« on: May 06, 2008, 10:56:21 PM »
When I joined TSC, I was mesmerized by the insanely fast times, high scores, and crazy videos of the members. I didn't ever conceive the level of SA2 playing I witnessed as possible. F-Man's city escape 1 video was a welcoming, intriguing, awe-inspiring piece of media that effectively convinced me to join TSC. I wanted to be a part of the community of sonic lovers. The maturity and skill of the members really convinced me this was the place to be. Never before had I seen such a tight-knit and skilled community  for video-games. This website was, without a doubt, the authority on sonic the hedgehog. If you thought your times were fast, a quick check of the rankings page would set your mind straight. TSC was -valid-, that was certain. I never thought a single record could be false. The rules were so well developed, the charts so well maintained. I couldn't possibly fathom that TSC was invalid everywhere. Every chart, every statistic. They were all there for a reason, legitimate. I -knew- this for a fact. TSC was the authority of sonic competition.

This little fact is what kept me at TSC. I wanted to learn from the likes of SadisticMystic. I wanted to become knowledgable and elite at sonic too. Had I shadow of a doubt that an illegal stat existed, a poor chart existed, and I probably would not have stayed. TSC's duty to maintain its own validity recruited at least one member. I doubt I'm the only one who was convinced by TSC's respectability. One can dispute whether my stay at TSC has been positive, but I don't think anyone can honestly dispute that TSC's validity was probably its highest quality and contributed the most to its growth as a community.

I no longer think this validity exists.

Well, that's an overstatement. The same stats and charts that existed when I first joined are woven into the site. It is still the top sonic competition website, no questions asked. The effects of years of care by administrators and players are still clearly evident in the site. The validity itself is not gone. The attitude behind it is. We no longer care to be the undeniable authority on sonic competition. Most illegal records are not checked for. Those that are found aren't deleted. Illegitimate statistics are -ok-! This is an attitude of apathy. If we cannot even maintain the validity in statistics of this website, how can we be trusted to do anything. How many other fake stats are out there? Are we attempting to grow as a community, to maintain our status as the top sonic players? Can we possibly do it when there is falsehood on our own turf?

I am not kidding.
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3122.0
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3382.0

Nobody has done a -thing- about them.

Is this the attitude that drew me into TSC? I was mesmerized by the care and respect of this place.. by the fact that it clearly wanted to be an unshakable tower in the eyes of falsehood.

There are other things too. TSC was always respectable and intelligent enough to know what charts should and should not be tracked. Infinite score techniques were always immediately banned. Levels with potential for infinite or rings were either never added or removed as soon as they were exploited. TSC was never redundant. Everything that was here to compete in was here for a reason. It was a capable chart. It had passed the judgment of an extremely respectable group of sonic players.

This is no longer the case.
 
Many months ago, Ring Rush proved that grinding rails in SSR increased score. This brought up a problem; every level in which rails could be grinded multiple times had potential for infinite score. Those charts were invalid. They had NO competition value. They were not worthy of being on TSC, because TSC's authority on sonic competition judged competition potential as well as actual achievements. Roughly a month ago, SkyLights and I sat down for a couple hours and found every single level in which this tactic was a problem. We cared enough to maintain the validity of TSC's charts; we weren't going to let the problematic charts poison TSC's reputation. We found all 31 levels affected by the exploit. The dirty work was done, all that was left was deletion. I figured that maintaining TSC's validity was a top priority; I was wrong. After Gerbil promised (and failed to deliver) one weekend of deletion, I figured I would make the deletion an absolute necessity. I sat down and exploited some of these charts. I spent long periods of time regrinding rails just to get high scores (which are infinite with patience). These charts no longer were just potential hazards; they were actively exploited. We didn't just have competition unworthy charts on our hands. We had a game which was exploited against all the principles of validity I had known TSC to be for. TSC effectively lost all authority in SSR competition. If our scores cannot be taken seriously, who says the game at all can be?

Unbelievably enough, the fact that charts have been proven infinite and exploited is not reason to delete them. A month later, many '*GerbilSoft bored*'s later, the charts are still up.

TSC has no validity, no influence. Our stats have no validity. Our charts cannot be taken seriously.

What is left of TSC if neither our statistics nor places to submit them are able to be trusted? the community?

The welcoming community I once eagerly joined exists no more. People get irritated when I ask gerbil to fix SSR scores. People get irritated when I discuss TSC in a serious light. The community I joined, the one that maintained a calm, mature, respectful demeanor regardless of circumstance is gone. Replacing it is a tribe of insults who enjoy opportunities to make TSC look like a jackass. Rather than be respectful even in the worst of BS calls, our community would rather insult, argue, and rickroll the questioners. Are we trying to be a valid community to make up for our inability to accurately rank sonic competition?

this topic says no: http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3398.0

please guys, can we return to the amazing TSC that mesmerized me and convinced me to join? I have not spent years of my life striving for that 'one last run' because of the current attitude. Can we save TSC's validity before it falls too deep to recover?

I would appreciate it if I am not flamed. If you are openly apathetic about TSC, you clearly do not care about what this topic has to say. Keep it to yourself. If you care not about fixing TSC, you probably have nothing to contribute. Be apathetic to yourself; don't force it on those of us (I hope it's 'us' instead of 'me') who care about TSC's authority on sonic competition.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 07:56:39 AM by Stefan »

Offline MK

Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 04:38:54 AM »
Wow. This is one of the most well written and most important threads on the forums.

The SSR problem needs to be fixed, as soon as possible. Period.

Edit: Good, they were removed. However the TIME it took to get this done was atrocious... We need to keep a cap on these kinds of issues.
Emeralds:

Offline Zeupar

  • The Watcher
  • Architect of the Matrix
  • TMSC Profile
  • win81 firefox
  • Posts: 521
  • Sonical!
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel (speedruns and travel videos)
Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 05:55:48 AM »
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Stefan. We need administrators like you. Aphaty has been the problem of TSC for years. I thought GerbilSoft would be the solution (like many), but he has turned apathetic too. And this is very sad news for TSC. I have found a ton of bugs and BS stats, but I decided not to post about them because I know that nothing is going to be done. Rolken is complelety wrong thinking this way. And to think that I thought that it was a good idea to add that to The Constitution at some point...

To finish, I would like to say the best response in a topic calling BS on DsS is rickrolling. We all know he is not a liar.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 12:48:17 AM by Zeupar »
Fail collection: 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
:o - :O - X) - :D

Offline P.P.A.

Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 06:04:17 AM »
Might I mention to Sonic R's OOB glitches. They're not cheating but severely hamper competition but nobody really cared or did anything about it.
THESE IMAGES CONFISCATED FOR EVIDENCE

My YouTube profile. Lots of Sonic speedruns~

Offline Ben

Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 07:39:17 AM »
Sounds like the current admin are busy with real life stuff and/or losing interest in TSC stuff. Maybe some new admin should be recruited. I can think of a lot of active members who would be suitable, showing a very active role in the community and caring about the competition:

Stefan
Shadow Jacky
Thorn
Skylights

As far as I know all of them have been around for quite a long time and are extremely trust worthy.

Offline Stefan

Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 08:03:15 AM »
Promoting me to adminship would be a waste of time; I know nothing about computer code and would not be able to contribute anything.

Offline MK

Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 08:05:36 AM »
And me?!

I may not be active on the forums or competition but I do hang in IRC, and more importantly, believe maintaining competition is important. You've all probably heard me bitch about disallowing randomness in entries.
Emeralds:

Offline Buizel

  • Stay classy.
  • Broseidon
  • TMSC: Psyknux
  • win81 mozilla
  • Posts: 226
  • 許しませんっ!
    • View Profile
    • The Faec >:O!!!
Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 08:39:44 AM »
Sounds like the current admin are busy with real life stuff and/or losing interest in TSC stuff.
I would think this to be the case. We're all getting older; the admins have college and/or work to attend as well as their personal matters that they attend to daily. The older among us (and possibly the younger among us too) have either lost the time to compete or have lost the interest to; we just have other obligations. I'm sure many of us, young and old, have lost the drive to improve what we've done so far; it was enjoyable and thrilling a few years ago but now we "can't be arsed." We don't want to try the new games because "they suck" or "Sonic Team screwed them up". So what else have we to do? We play other games. I suppose we've just gotten bored with playing Sonic games these days.

I will have to agree with Stefan though about how long it's been taking to address many of the issues regarding the charts and false stats. Gerbil seems to have the most free time among the admins, and if he is constantly bored, has the time to find all of these news stories he keeps posting in the chatroom that we don't care about 95% of the time, no longer is working, and is seemingly rickrolling his dormmates 24/7, one would think that he would at least spend some time addressing the technical issues of TSC.  I don't mind Gerbil having fun with life, but he should realize his position and the responsibility associated with that position.

I do agree that perhaps we should have one or two new admins, though preferably people who have some experience in coding.
Hay guiz, I made a table showing how many points each game tracked by TSC is worth. You should go see it.
Also v2.0 of my TSC calculator is available to use. You should totally use it.
I update these every Monday around 2:30pm GMT.

Offline EngiNerd

  • Most Sarcastic Member of the Year
  • TMSC Profile
  • win7 chrome
  • Posts: 798
  • Hydrowhut
    • View Profile
Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 09:48:07 AM »
I'm with Stefan wholeheartedly on this one.  If we're going to be a competition website, we need to be willing to enforce it.  I still believe we are the authority, but if this keeps up, not for much longer.  I also agree that there seems to be a high level of apathy on this one - it took FAR too long to remove the invalid SSR scores.  There is also far too much idiocy remaining in the charts as well.  Prime example - why exactly is SonicandAmy STILL present in the charts?  I thought he was banned, and if he was banned, he should be removed completely.  I mean, if he's not banned, leave it, but we shouldn't have one of the worst morons this site has ever seen remain at THIRD in the SSR ranks if he's been proven to be a liar and a cheater.  Not to mention he's third in StF and SECOND in Rivals.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.
A week or so ago I wrote to GS (PM) about a potential change in the SA/SA2 rankings, where the stats were sorted separately by which console the player was using (it was actually a somewhat complex idea, this doesn't do it justice).  I was expecting him to respond and tell me that it wasn't a great idea (though still hoping he would say yes).  He never responded.  Yet he does seem to have a lot of spare time on his hands.  I would understand if he was busy as all heck, in which case I would simply say find someone to help him, but he has the time - he simply doesn't seem to care.  GS, we need your help for this, please contribute at least a little effort.  Otherwise, we need someone else to take his place.
I know I haven't gotten bored with Sonic.  I play hardly anything else!  I mean yeah, I don't have a Sonic game in my laptop right now, but every spare moment I get with the Wii at home is on either SSR or SA2B (unless my brother begs for another Brawl match <_<).  I'm still trying to find Shadow the Hedgehog for GC (haven't had much time to look) and already I'm looking forward to Sonic the Werewolf.  I'm odd like that, you look through my game collection and a typical gaming website, pretty much everything I like is ranked between 4 and 7 out of 10 - very few exceptions.  I enjoy a game for its good qualities, I don't hate a game for its bad qualities (if that makes any sense).  For some reason, I've never really understood all of the complaining about the series; I think it's still enjoyable enough to remain a fan of it.
I agree with Ben's choices for admins, and yes, adding MK to the mix as well.
And, what type of coding is this website?  What language?
Im in ur TSCz, climin ur chartz!
My presssioussss....

Offline Buizel

  • Stay classy.
  • Broseidon
  • TMSC: Psyknux
  • win81 mozilla
  • Posts: 226
  • 許しませんっ!
    • View Profile
    • The Faec >:O!!!
Re: On TSC's authority in sonic competition.
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 10:49:13 AM »
I would understand if he was busy as all heck, in which case I would simply say find someone to help him, but he has the time - he simply doesn't seem to care.  GS, we need your help for this, please contribute at least a little effort.  Otherwise, we need someone else to take his place.
I think it's more the fact that the amount of work required in what he wants to do sounds like a daunting task for him, and rather than making simple, temporary fixes he wants a more permanent solution, but in that case, he really should ask SM and the other admins for assistance.

I know I haven't gotten bored with Sonic.  I play hardly anything else!  I mean yeah, I don't have a Sonic game in my laptop right now, but every spare moment I get with the Wii at home is on either SSR or SA2B (unless my brother begs for another Brawl match <_<).
You haven't been here long enough. I'm mainly talking about those of us who have been here since, say, 2006 or earlier and, back when we first joined, were active all the time, but are rarely active now. Many of us play other games nowadays.

I'm still trying to find Shadow the Hedgehog for GC (haven't had much time to look) and already I'm looking forward to Sonic the Werewolf.
Good for you. Some of us aren't looking forward to Sonic Unleashed. However, I think we could benefit from having more people like you who are a fan of Sonic games and aren't stupid/liars (though preferably I would like people who can get better stats >_>).

And, what type of coding is this website?  What language?
Coding is done in PHP I believe? And maybe something else but I tend to not pay attention to these things.
Hay guiz, I made a table showing how many points each game tracked by TSC is worth. You should go see it.
Also v2.0 of my TSC calculator is available to use. You should totally use it.
I update these every Monday around 2:30pm GMT.

    Print
 

Hits: 117 | Hits This Month: 2 | DB Calls: 8 | Mem Usage: 6.85 MB | Time: 0.10s | Printable

The Sonic Center v3.9
Copyright 2003-2011 by The Sonic Center Team.