don't click here

Show Posts - SadisticMystic


Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Topics - SadisticMystic

Pages: [1] 2 3
2
Rules Revisions / Cannon's Core 3/5 FS?
« on: November 09, 2012, 09:34:48 pm »
The Cannon's Core warp glitch has been well known since the beginning of TSC, and it's the basis on which the Freestyle division was founded. The first two versions of the game are rather limited in the ways they can invoke "CC successor mode;" the classic method is to use Chao World, either by selecting it from stage select or from the Emblem Results screen, which is restricted in that you always get dumped into mission 1. Additionally, they can use the kart stages as a somewhat more flexible transition stage, in that it allows you to choose any mission number. However, this is only useful because of the Route 280 death reset in mission 2, so that CC2 FS can exist and yield an even lower time than mission 1 does in the original releases. Playing either kart stage on 3 or 5 is useless for creating FS charts because even Route 101 isn't as fast as the times that are possible by playing through Cannon's Core the "long way". So we only have freestyle charts there for missions 1 and 2.

Then along comes the HD rerelease, with its obligatory contribution of Sonic Team coding: somehow their implemention of widescreen allows the Chao Key glitch to arise, which is something exploitable with any character, in any mission, and it always invokes CC successor mode, even to the point of throwing you into the Test Level as a "null successor" if you haven't played CC recently. Notably, the timer will start from 0 regardless of what it was after the level you picked using this method, and this can be used to set FS times in missions 3 and 5 that are far better than what can be achieved on the standard charts. (Without the need to accrue any lead-in time from Chao World, this method is sufficient to beat the old FS record on mission 1 too, which is already acceptable.)

Should we bother adding these charts since the mission layouts are technically different (and in the case of 5, the inability to stop time so soon will cause that mission to end up with a slightly longer time than the others, unlike 1/2/3 which have the same theoretical minimum time but different endpoints)? Or should this quirk of the game be without a home on TSC, a la SA/DX characters in other levels, since the charts would be completely meaningless with respect to the original releases of the game, and the only releases in existence for better than a 10-year timespan? Does anyone even care about FS charts to begin with?

3
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: sonicsapphire
« on: October 16, 2010, 09:13:37 pm »
You're showing a 9.22 in Pumpkin Hill, untied by a full 1.83 (110 frames) on a level that only had 11 seconds to begin with.

I'll start off by presenting a list of every possible piece in the level, ripped straight from the SA2 data files: http://soniccenter.org/sm/files/sa2huntphrip.txt

The locations I've used are:
0112 for piece 1 (options are anything beginning with 01, 03, or X), in 154 frames
0002 for piece 2 (options are anything beginning with 00, 02, 05, or X), in 258 frames
0801 for piece 3 (options are anything beginning with 04, 07, or 08), in 249 frames

Is this improvement due to a new piece location that's even closer to start than the previous one in the appropriate slot, or just a much-improved way to get to the same spots?

No need to go into much more detail than that, at least not yet.

4
Ban List / TheSonicGod [BANNED]
« on: January 26, 2010, 12:59:52 pm »
Date of ban: 1/26/10
IP: 24.47.168.254
Reason for banning: Summarily wiped for flooding Sonic 1-2 charts with nonsense top ranks (0:01, 999999, etc.)
Forum permission status: Active
Ban duration: Permanent.

5
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: bluebomber
« on: July 14, 2009, 01:36:00 pm »
Could you snap a few screens of your mission standings in Final Rush?

Here's what you have now, and what I'd expect to see:

1-Time: 3:07:17
1-Score: 27500
1-Rings: 509
2-Time: 1:25:03
3-Time: 2:51:82
4-Rings: 504
5-Time: 3:09:07
5-Score: 29330
5-Rings: 460

If either the 1-Time or 1-Score results happen to be on the 4 standings instead of 1, that's still good.

The time awaits.

6
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: SonicKudos
« on: June 12, 2009, 06:33:06 pm »
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/sonickudos/sonic_adventure_2_b/times/eternal_engine/mission_1

What strategy is it that's getting you 2:01, but not under 2:00 until you manage to get hold of a video?

(There may be some follow-ups later, but just this one is good for now.)

7
News and Updates / Introducing...TSC Gold!
« on: April 01, 2009, 01:33:48 am »
TSC Gold - Because Gold Is Better Than Silver

Have you ever wanted to get that extra edge to put you over the top? Tired of seeing 30-, 40-, or even 50-way ties crowding out the tops of charts? Ready for a whole new dimension to competition?

Well now your prayers are answered, thanks to TSC Gold! Upon signing up for TSC Gold, you will be given a limited edition TSC-Sanctioned Boostinator! This cheat device, the first one ever approved for use at TSC, works on every console represented in our game list! Just hook it up to the game and you can be up to 10% better in everything: Sonic moving 10% faster! The clock moving 10% slower! Rings adding 10% more value to your ring count! That's 10% better that you'll be able to do on charts, that your rivals won't be able to match! What more could you ask for? And let's not forget the Sonic Twosday special promotions where we select a few charts for the Boostinator's boost to double to 20%! With a boost like that, you can do Eggmanland faster than...well, than a non-TSC Gold-anointed member could complete Eggmanland.

And that's not all! We are pleased to announce that TSC Gold forms the start of an ongoing partnership between TSC and Sega, and they'll be releasing new games just for us! We even have a sneak preview video of one of these games...just click here and be amazed! Only TSC Gold members will even be able to submit for these games, and in true Boostinator fashion, they'll be worth 10% more sitewide points than normal! You want sitewide points, don't you?

So how do you get in on this unfettering of your competitive chains? Get your PayPal accounts ready, because TSC Gold, complete with Boostinator, can be yours in just four easy payments: US$29.95 to questiondesk@gmail.com, US$4.95 to gerbilsoft@verizon.net, US$150,000 to legalfees@riaa.com, and ZW$0.01 to april@igotfooled.de. But wait, if you sign up in the next 22 hours--because we can't do this all day, you know--we'll chop off that third payment! (Actually we can't legally do that, but if you don't tell anyone, we won't send them after you.)

What are you waiting for? Get TSC Gold today!

8
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: frankoredstrato
« on: March 28, 2009, 02:12:57 am »
The authorities (read: me) have noticed suspicious activity (read: probable fake submissions) coming from a source with close ties to you (read: your TSC account). Here's a chance for you to answer the charges and clear your name, if it is indeed worthy of being cleared.

Right now I'm looking for verification of the following stats in SA2. Snapping a picture on the level select will be good enough, as long as the times are legible.

-Wild Canyon / m5 / 0:18.50
-Death Chamber / m2 / 1:02.73
-Meteor Herd / m2 / 0:36.49
-Meteor Herd / m5 / 0:38.89 (Do you have this recorded already? The fact that you pinpoint the rocket as 21.57 seems to suggest such...)
-Sand Ocean / m1 / 0:50.01 (Yes this is orange. It's also right in the middle of a void between strategies, and a plausible case of pulling numbers out of nowhere.)
-Egg Quarters / m5 / 0:34.22
-Sky Rail / m1 / 0:48.23 (You claim this was on DC?)
-Sky Rail / m2 / 0:26.61 (Was this from DC too?)
-Final Chase / m2 / 0:34.57

9
Leaderboard Disputes / son1cgu1tar - Biolizard
« on: February 12, 2009, 01:33:25 pm »
You present 1:03.19 on the prototype, and link it to this. Sure that video shows a 1:03.19...

...to me, it also shows autofire.

First off, I just ran a test of the homing attack in SA2. It turns out that after a jump, if you press A again within four frames, that A press is completely ignored. Homing attack A presses need to be at least 5 frames apart.

That said, after looking through the frames of that video, the homing attacks are consistent with 5...5...5...5 every time. Notably, this includes the one at the beginning for the acceleration boost, and there are no other jumps during "dead time" segments between hits. The only jumps/bounces that aren't followed 5 frames later by homing attacks are the ones into the lizard, and those don't appear to be particularly high jumps--as though it was a tap of A, released within 4 frames.

Of course, even the predators who walked into Chris Hansen's house got a chance to defend themselves, so if you have anything to say, now's your chance.

10
Competition Central / Should I try to become a fortune teller?
« on: March 22, 2008, 10:54:29 pm »


Consider just how different the Aquatic Mine we knew 17 months ago was to the one we know today.

11
Rules Revisions / Route 101/Route 280 rings: What to do?
« on: November 07, 2007, 01:23:42 am »
It has come to my attention that Route 101 and Route 280 share the same "rings respawn after 1 minute" mechanic with the kart races.?  This has drastic ramifications on those levels' ring charts, obviously.

Relevant facts:
-TSC rules generally dislike any allowance for collecting respawned anything under the virtue of not wanting to have obviously maxed (999) stats, or stats that completely obliterate anything that was possible without abusing the respawning
-The only levels affected by this are intrinsically reined in by time limits (3:40 R101 and 4:00 R280) which allows for at most one respawn cycle
-SA2's save file doesn't even keep track of best rings in kart stages, nor is the total shown in the blue box on level complete (it's only shown, de-emphasized, in the HUD at the corner), and there's no out-of total or all-ring A (well, there is an all-ring A on mission 6, but that's another story)
-It's worth noting that Hill Top in Sonic 2 has a respawning rock mechanic that's deliberately passed over by the rules on the grounds that the 10:00 time limit isn't enough time for scalping rocks to be anywhere close to the amount of points obtainable by "traditional" means
-Unlike Hill Top, use of respawning rings here will by definition be better than what's available without those rings, but there's still competition to be had, and clearly no hope at 999 or other easily maxed counts
-This would provide an extra element of strategy to the level, making its idealized form "What is the best point for me to turn around and drive backwards for 30 seconds, so I can pick up the newly-respawned rings and continue on for the rest of the level?" Note that such decisions have to be made on top of running the level in what would be a 2:40 clip, and without dropping excessive rings to boot
-Because GameCube has a sense of randomness (balloons on Dreamcast are worth a fixed 10 or a fixed 20; on GC they're whatever the DC value is plus an additional 5, 10, or 20 chosen at random), if this technique is to be allowed, the level will most probably become unmaxable on GameCube, as the odds of getting all random 20s are currently 1-in-243; with this route they'd drop most likely to 1-in-2187, and you still you to be able to run the longest section of backtrack possible that provides just barely enough time to reach the finish before time over, and do all that without missing a single ring
-Additionally, if this is allowed then it's worth considering whether kart stage mission 5 rings should be split off.?  The decreased time limits (2:50 R101 and 3:25 R280) prevent even one iteration of respawning rings from being able to materialize, leading to a more "pure" ring chart that plays like the levels always have in the past.

With this is mind, what should we do??  Allow respawning rings on the ring charts (with or without spinning off m5 charts), institute a rule to nip this in the bud, or just drop the charts entirely because rings were never emphasized on those levels except as boost food, and this brings it closer to some undefined and arbitrary "dumbness threshold"?

-----

RULING: This tactic is allowed. However, it hasn't been applied on the charts yet because apparently it's pretty tricky.

12
This is the fourth year of our site's existence, and there hasn't yet been a large-scale popularity contest where you get to vote for whomever you want, under whatever reasoning you want, in the hopes of crowning one member with a largely-meaningless title. Because every site needs to do that, right?

Well, in any case, this one is.

TOURNAMENT OVER--Shadow Jacky and mike89 TIED


Click for full-size version

Sixteen of us are Evil Fascists, living under and fully subservient to His Ultimate Highness George W. the One-and-a-Halfth, wanting nothing less than his ultimate conquest of all that is before us. Sixteen of us are Evil Terrorists, gathering from all over, but united by a common goal of complete destruction of this crazy ruler, and who cares about any collateral damage that goes down with him? They're probably just mindless followers to begin with.

When the forces of evil battle each other, who comes out on top?

Match History:
1. Quartz def. Psyknux, 10-9
2. SuperSonic101 def. Douglas, 9-7
3. mike89 def. shadowgamer196, 11-1
4. PsyBorg def. SadisticMystic, 10-9
5. gamersince93 def. Spinballwizard, 12-10
6. RPGnutter def. P.P.A., 17-4
7. maggot def. Marth, 11-11 (NOTE: in order to keep the voting automatic and on schedule, the underdog always wins in case of a tie, as though they were spotted half a point)
8. eredani def. Zeupar, 12-6
9. Rolken def. Paragod, 19-4
10. CherryMay def. knuckles_sonic8, 14-2
11. Stefan def. stanski, 9-8

My assistant will clear some things up in the next post.

13
Wikkity! / TSC Popularity Contest 2007?
« on: May 19, 2007, 11:58:07 pm »
I thought it would be a nice idea to try one of these and see how well the dynamics go.

My plan is for a 32-member tournament, taking place over the 31 days in July.  In order to prevent recruit floods tipping the scales, I suggest restrictions on who gets to cast votes, such as requiring one of the following as of the start of the contest:
* 25 or more forum posts (without an active ban)
* 3000 or more lines in #soniccenter since the last stat reset
* 1 or more untied records on a chart
And if any suspicious accounts show up in the days between the contest is officially announced and July 1, whose only actions are to make 25 content-free posts, they can be conveniently banned and no one has to know why.

Of course, to have a contest between 32 members, you have to know which 32 they are.  We can attempt to figure that out here, and when they're decided, it would help if biographies were to be made for the competitors.

I'm going to see if I can develop a scheme whereby TSC usernames can be linked to IRC nicks, and if so, then my bot may be able to keep track of all the votes automatically and in a tamper-proof way.  Otherwise, we'll figure something out.

14
http://tasvideos.org/1566S.html

If Mega Man had clones, would they move exactly like he does, or find ways to seem that way while really converting nerve signals to entirely different motions?

15
General Sonic / Death Chamber ring and key maps
« on: April 30, 2007, 12:28:55 am »
After Security Hall, I decided to do this level next, because it's mostly flat and because there's a graphic that shows most of the map right in the level.  divx2k60 from CulT ripped the graphic, complete with its background static (yes, the actual game graphic has static, though you need to focus the camera very close on it to see).  After cleaning it up (which made the fuzzy edges more apparent--it's the best I could do), I went forward with filling in the rings.

Attached is my first complete copy of the map.  Are there any major problems with it?

17
A while ago, I had a vision for a video.  Sonic Adventure 2 is full of strange stuff.  Could I come up with an oddity for every level, and then compile it into a video?

While I was in the process of investigating what to do, my Dreamcast broke.  This would be a problem.  But with Economic Stimulus Day right around the corner at the time, it shouldn't be too hard to pick up a replacement there.  So I did, and I started getting the clip segments I needed.  Then I just had to combine them all into one video (and not get it to choke on 32 video files and 99 image files used to put it all together), see what my best production results would be, and wait an abnormally long time to get the green light for posting YouTube videos over 10:00 long.

The result is finally up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=be9-JA0-agw

You've probably seen some of those tricks before (a few were taken out of already-existing record videos), but I doubt you'll know of all 32 without having watched the video already.  If you're having trouble comprehending some things, I accompanied the video with a text explanation: http://soniccenter.org/sm/files/sa2gt.txt

Any questions/comments?

18
Rules Revisions / E-102 Hot Shelter and dumbness [Resolved...again]
« on: November 11, 2006, 11:53:14 pm »
Ever since the beginning of the site, it's been known that the switches in E-102 Hot Shelter give +1 second, and you can hit them as many times as you want.  This was used to give several times in the 99-minute range, and everything went along smoothly.

Then Marth discovered a way to break through the walls of the boss room after time has been stopped entering that room, but before you touch down and actually trigger the boss fight.  It only worked on GameCube, though, allowing those players to get a few seconds higher.  Again, no uproar was raised about this.

On February 20 of this year, I noticed a problem with this level.  On Dreamcast, you can't stop the clock to freely build up time, but the timer isn't capped to 99 minutes either.  Minutes is a signed variable for some reason (like most of SA seems to be), so you can build the timer up to a maximum of 127:59.  That's a version difference of 28 minutes.

The big problem: Nowhere does that time get displayed in full.  I used the higher timer cap to obtain a time of 118:14.11, but the in-game screen displayed 99:59.99, the level complete screen displayed 99:14.11, and the level select screen shows 18:14.11.  There's nothing that can be used to display the full 118 minutes.  Furthermore, it would require a TSC coding change in order to enter times of 100 minutes or more.

I briefly brought up this problem, but it was ignored.  Now there's been plenty more playing around in E-102 Hot Shelter, and the discussion has come back.  Should times up to the 127-minute range be allowed, even though there would be no way to prove such a time?  Psyknux took advantage of the increased timer cap and used it to get something that does display properly, 99:58.54, but other than the final times, 99:58 and 118:14 are done in the same way.  Should that 99:58.54 be submittable?  Should the legality be determined not by the tactics used, but the way the game displays your time?  If you used the trick to get, say, 100:15, it would display on the level select screen as 00:15.  But the presence of an A emblem would make it clear that your best time couldn't possibly be just 15 seconds.  For Hot Shelter, could this be used to raise the limit for unambiguously identifiable times on Dreamcast to just under 102 minutes?

Does the whole scalping-switches-for-unlimited-time deal in Hot Shelter need to be itself examined (possibly thrown into a Freestyle division)?

Discuss your ideas here.


-----
RULING 11-14-2006 by Rolken

New rule: As Gamma, no switch may be shot more than once.

Times above 100min are only visible from the select screen and then only without the leading 1, rendering times impossible to prove and even more broken to compete in since you can't determine your time in-level.

Accordingly, all times above 90min have been suspended.

19
Competition Central / Possible future idea: TSC Video Collection DVDs
« on: October 25, 2006, 12:07:08 pm »
I recently acquired a DVD burner drive, and was thinking of ways to put it to use.  After a bit of thought, I stumbled across this.

Imagine a TSC collaboration to produce DVDs containing the best runs that have been put on the site over the years.  If you played a role somehow (whether it's layout, artwork, or just being the one who played some of the runs that got chosen) you could even walk away with some money from it!  How cool is that?

The plan is to have a menu divided into submenus for each game represented, and from there you'll be able to browse the videos that have been chosen for that game.  I'll try to get as many runs as will fit on the DVD.  Highly-regarded runs such as those from the Top 10 would make the cut, but 1) videos without sound shouldn't be eligible (disqualifying my old 2D videos, including CN2 which made #2 on the list) and 2) I'd prefer if only direct recordings of the screen where included (which would sadly rule out F-Man's videos in their current form, which were done with a camera aimed at a TV).

The drive I have is LightScribe-compatible, so with the appropriate discs I can just burn in a label.  However, I don't do much graphical work so I'd have no idea what to make for the label layout.  If you're interested in seeing this go through and have ideas for that, bring them up.

Because DVDs aren't free to make and come by, we'll end up charging some undetermined amount.  The money will be divided up among those who had a part in putting it together: I'd take some for putting together and shipping the discs, whoever designs the logo will get some, anyone who can think of something else to go into these might get a cut for their contribution, and the players of the chosen videos will get the rest (probably based on the amount of runs of theirs that get chosen, though I haven't decided whether to count based on number of runs or total length thereof.)

What do you think of this idea?  Do you have designs that could be used for the labels or menus?  How much would you think is a reasonable price for the DVDs?  If you have videos here, would you let them be included or not?  Answer what you can; that's why I asked.

20
Wikkity! / ‭‮‭‮ಠIn this topic we talk backwards
« on: October 10, 2006, 09:29:55 pm »
it's not like you need to go out of your way to talk backwards, though

‭‮‭‮ಠ<- copy and paste this symbol

21
Competition Central / The Maxed Time Discussion Topic
« on: September 06, 2006, 07:05:40 am »
Sometimes it can be fun to guess what you think a "perfect" time for a level can be, possibly to be proven wrong later.

I'll have a go by hazarding guesses at the stages I know best: the 14 treasure-hunting levels across the Adventures.
Wild Canyon: 1.29 (1.22 in a TAS where you can double-tap A a single frame apart)
Pumpkin Hill: 10.87
Aquatic Mine: 6.89
Death Chamber: 9.42
Meteor Herd: 17.69 (all bets are off here if 3+1 can be obtained on the same life, putting the record somewhere in the 14s)
Dry Lagoon: 6.44
Egg Quarters: 7.70
Security Hall: 5.75 (5.69 in a TAS)
Mad Space: 8.95
Speed Highway: 12.33
Casinopolis: random guess of 7.56 based on a strat I've spent 635 lives on with no success (but I know to be possible); it might work out even better and go into the high 6s
Red Mountain: 6.88
Lost World: 14.59
Sky Deck: 7.34

And I'll close by holding out hope that when TAS capabilities finally come, the Pumpkin Hill 5 path I have in development will finally be pulled off, resulting in a time of...oh, say, 17.99. (hint: the splits would be something like 5.52, 12.90, 17.97)

For games that already have a TAS available as a reference for what's believed to be perfection (such as the Advance games), you can make your guesses at what the "human" standard of perfection would be, the one that TSC records will tend to over time.

22
Wikkity! / TSC YouTube group
« on: September 05, 2006, 08:46:40 am »
http://youtube.com/group/thesoniccenter

So far it's just me, but then the group hasn't been around for long.  Feel free to join.

If you have videos, even if they're already available on TSC, you can post them there.

23
Wikkity! / Official TSC Photo Album
« on: August 23, 2006, 08:52:03 pm »
This topic contains pictures of TSC members who have elected to be represented here.  To get on the list, just give us a link.  I may already have pictures of some of you, but won't put them up until you request to go up by replying to this topic.  Limit one picture per user; choose wisely.

CURRENT LIST:
BHatfield21
CosmicFalcon
douglas
maggot
Psyknux
RPGnutter (on the right)
SadisticMystic


24
Wikkity! / The Speedrun Wiki
« on: May 13, 2006, 03:03:05 am »
http://speedrunwiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

It's a new startup that hopes to become full of information to help speedrunners in all sorts of games.  Do your share and start editing.

25
Wikkity! / Random Tech Support Topic
« on: December 15, 2005, 03:48:58 am »
No guarantee that your problems will be solved, but at least it's a place to ask.  If something's wrong, tell us about it and someone might be able to help.

26
General Sonic / itt an epic fight over the fate of the Olympics
« on: November 20, 2005, 06:47:00 pm »
Last night, I told Zizou how fast Mike's entry in the marathon was, now that the deadline for entries had passed.  He said he'd verify that after sleeping, and he did...but came back to me ready to fight.

(14:26:05) cman110690: So where is the real video?
(14:26:16) cman110690: That recording is full of cheats
(14:26:22) SadisticMystic1: such as?
(14:26:53) cman110690: His joypad has a feature called auto fire
(14:27:25) cman110690: In all competitions for basically all games autofire is called as a cheat
(14:27:38) SadisticMystic1: Two things: 1) what good does autofire do in Sonic 2, and 2) where are you getting the idea that autofire is used?
(14:27:39) cman110690: as it gives an unfair advantage to the player who has them,
(14:27:54) cman110690: All of his spindashes use autofire
(14:28:12) cman110690: Thats how his spin dashes were so fast compared to everyone else
(14:28:33) cman110690: On hill top theres more than an obvious proof of that
(14:28:49) cman110690: A human couldnt tap something that fast, only a machine coud
(14:28:51) cman110690: could*
(14:28:55) SadisticMystic1: Based on an audio spectrum of the run, the revs for spindashes were NOT evenly spaced, and come at an average rate of 13 per second
(14:29:13) SadisticMystic1: That's certainly possible, especially if you alternate using the A, S, and D keys
(14:29:28) cman110690: No it is not.
(14:29:37) cman110690: Another evidence to that is
(14:30:09) cman110690: That his recording (the file) is alot bigger in file size then the majority, yet it is shorter in game play
(14:30:09) Offering to send SM Quasar 150%.wmv to cman110690
(14:30:31) SadisticMystic1: because his recording was made before the new rule
(14:30:54) cman110690: No thats not it, the time of his recording is shorter
(14:30:59) cman110690: but his file size is bigger
(14:31:10) cman110690: There are 2 possible causes for that
(14:31:17) SadisticMystic1: a .gir, if not conducted from the beginning, consists of a single savestate of the position the movie was like, followed by the buttons
(14:31:22) cman110690: 1 of em is the obvious auto fire
(14:31:31) SadisticMystic1: Mike's was the only entry that included that savestate, which pads the file size
(14:31:45) cman110690: 2nd a possible 3rd party program that slows down the game
(14:31:48) SadisticMystic1: Autofire does not change the number of bytes it takes to represent a given amount of gameplay time
(14:31:53) SadisticMystic1: neither does slowdown
(14:32:10) cman110690: The .gir records each button that is pressed
(14:32:24) cman110690: it will record the extremely fast computer sutomatically repetitive autofire
(14:32:30) SadisticMystic1: But it only checks the input 60 times each second.
(14:32:51) SadisticMystic1: If a button is pressed at that 1/60 second interval, it records a 1.  Otherwise it records 0.
(14:32:57) cman110690: Anyways for the 3rd party program
(14:33:36) cman110690: We figured that it might have been a program that slows down the game at -50% rate
(14:33:45) cman110690: 1kb = 4 minutes
(14:34:20) cman110690: 14x4 = 56
(14:34:22) SadisticMystic1: no, 1kb = 5.55 seconds
(14:34:30) cman110690: Lets take another community
(14:34:41) cman110690: 9kb
(14:34:46) cman110690: was the file size
(14:34:56) cman110690: 9x4 = 36
(14:35:07) cman110690: And it was their exact length of recording
(14:35:09) SadisticMystic1: 9KB also doesn't include the savestate that was shortly after the beginning.
(14:35:30) cman110690: so I wouldnt see why the TSC video would be the only one that is different like that
(14:35:33) SadisticMystic1: .giz files are COMPRESSED and can vary in length over time.
(14:35:59) cman110690: I dont see why the TSC video would be th ONLY one
(14:36:03) SadisticMystic1: The uncompressed .gir files always use exactly 180 bytes per second, but that rate does not follow a strict factor on .giz
(14:36:07) cman110690: with the problems
(14:36:07) SadisticMystic1: I doo see why
(14:36:22) cman110690: Anyways
(14:36:57) SadisticMystic1: it's because Mike selected recording shortly after the start, and thus had that savestate in the beginning as a reference point, which pads on a bunch of bytes to the file size
(14:37:01) cman110690: I have complete proof on the autofire, but I am still suspicious on the file size
(14:37:11) SadisticMystic1: "complete proof"?
(14:37:14) cman110690: yep
(14:37:26) cman110690: lol Take a look at Hill Top and Oil Ocean
(14:37:38) cman110690: They are glitches only possible to do with AutoFire
(14:38:07) SadisticMystic1: Autofire is not needed for that
(14:38:17) cman110690: and that thing on the ocean could be considered a cheat aswell since it led to it
(14:38:31) SadisticMystic1: How is it a cheat?
(14:38:37) SadisticMystic1: Is there a code that you have to enter to do it?
(14:38:43) cman110690: Lol common take a look at it
(14:38:52) cman110690: hold on let me show u something
(14:39:29) cman110690: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cheating
(14:39:41) cman110690: I really gota so brb we can discuss on the matter when im  back
(14:40:05) SadisticMystic1: There is no trickery or fraud
(14:40:25) SadisticMystic1: Anything you see there can be performed normally
(14:40:39) cman110690: Not the autofire
(14:40:46) SadisticMystic1: There is no autofire
(14:40:49) cman110690: Lol
(14:40:53) cman110690: yes there is
(14:41:00) SadisticMystic1: http://koti.mbnet.fi/blackpaw/Stuff/quasar.wmv
(14:41:12) cman110690: Take a look at hill top and tell how that is not autofire
(14:41:24) SadisticMystic1: That shows how 15.5 taps per second is possible over a much longer duration that a single spindash a t a time
(14:41:26) cman110690: if you guys really wanted to win, you should have played fair.
(14:42:29) cman110690: Heres what Im proposing
(14:42:51) cman110690: I know hes good as I can just tell by how he was playing
(14:43:07) cman110690: Tell him to play it on the keyboard without autofire
(14:43:16) SadisticMystic1: That's exactly what he did.
(14:43:25) cman110690: lol
(14:43:30) cman110690: You are making me laugh
(14:43:50) cman110690: The keyboard has a function to make u stop tapping so rapidly in such a short amount of time
(14:44:19) SadisticMystic1: The keyboard can handle much more than 13 button presses in a second.
(14:44:34) cman110690: uh no
(14:45:01) SadisticMystic1: From what I've seen on WhatPulse, keyboards lock at 22 keys per second.
(14:45:18) SadisticMystic1: There's still a long way to go before hitting that.
(14:45:38) cman110690: lol
(14:45:45) cman110690: nice try
(14:45:47) cman110690: ha
(14:46:14) SadisticMystic1: I'm going to tap the A, S, and D keys as fast as I can for one second after typing this.
(14:46:15) SadisticMystic1: asdasdasdsadsaddasdas
(14:46:23) SadisticMystic1: 21
(14:46:26) cman110690: lol
(14:46:33) cman110690: u are hillarious
(14:46:58) SadisticMystic1: 13 a second, unevenly spaced out, is completely feasible.
(14:47:01) cman110690: Ive tried it arious times
(14:47:17) cman110690: and the spin dash breaks if you switch keys
(14:47:29) SadisticMystic1: It only breaks if you release Down.
(14:47:37) cman110690: which wasnt done
(14:47:42) SadisticMystic1: If you press A, S, D, A, S, D, you get 6 revs.
(14:48:05) cman110690: I can I'll retake a look at it
(14:49:24) SadisticMystic1: Obviously, you can achieve a higher maximum rate of tapping when you use three fingers on three keys instead of relying on only one key.
(14:53:09) cman110690: I'll contact some guys at GodWeapon, they've been doing online competitions longer then I have
(14:53:16) cman110690: They'll be able to tell
(15:13:26) cman110690: ok
(15:13:36) cman110690: He says it's auto fire
(15:13:52) SadisticMystic1: http://www.gdward.plus.com/input.txt
(15:14:04) cman110690: But I guess I can let it go...
(15:14:20) SadisticMystic1: That shows the frame counts at which every button in the run was pressed and/or held until
(15:14:21) cman110690: Dude Dreadknux is so disapointing u know why?
(15:14:31) SadisticMystic1: he got game over?
(15:14:39) cman110690: He never sent me his recording
(15:14:56) cman110690: On the news on his site he claims to have an excuse
(15:15:17) cman110690: I just wanna throw Sonic Olympics out of the window  right now
(15:16:16) cman110690: Is Sprint still alive?
(15:16:25) cman110690: I gotta send him the Master Systems
(15:16:34) SadisticMystic1: Sprint is on
(15:16:53) cman110690: k tell him I'll e-mail him the Master System recordings I got ok?
(15:18:45) SadisticMystic1: The list of button presses is now in a more readable form
(15:19:17) SadisticMystic1: still at http://www.gdward.plus.com/input.txt
(15:19:25) SadisticMystic1: where in that is autofire used?
(15:19:59) cman110690: Dude no.
(15:20:06) cman110690: Anyways I said I'll accept it
(15:20:28) cman110690: Its partially my fault, didnt think I'd have to be so picky on rules

Later...

(15:33:37) SadisticMystic1: Did you get the Quasar video?
(15:33:54) cman110690: nop the transfer failed
(15:33:59) SadisticMystic1: http://koti.mbnet.fi/blackpaw/Stuff/quasar.wmv
(15:34:01) cman110690: im on my laptop right now
(15:34:06) cman110690: at the air port
(15:35:16) cman110690: lol
(15:35:20) cman110690: that guy is goo
(15:35:23) cman110690: good*
(15:35:30) cman110690: still isnt any proof
(15:35:37) cman110690: but dont worry ur vid still passes
(15:46:26) cman110690: Hey
(15:46:46) cman110690: I just got contact from one of the authors of gens+
(15:47:10) cman110690: And they say that gens+ dosent compress recordings
(15:47:29) SadisticMystic1: It does if you tell it to
(15:47:39) SadisticMystic1: or if that option is enabled by default
(15:47:48) cman110690: Where can u tell it too?
(15:47:56) cman110690: And it wasnt suppose to be done either
(15:48:02) SadisticMystic1: a GIZ file is "Gens Input, ZIPPED"
(15:48:11) cman110690: no it is not
(15:48:27) SadisticMystic1: using gunzip on it, you get an uncompressed .gir file, for "Gens Input Recording"
(15:48:51) cman110690: Thats bull shit
(15:48:56) cman110690: even if it is
(15:49:03) SadisticMystic1: If you right-click a .giz file, is one of the options you get called "Extract Here"?
(15:49:07) cman110690: why would a .gir recording be lighter then a .giz
(15:49:11) SadisticMystic1: It isn't
(15:49:12) cman110690: IF IT IS ZIPPED
(15:49:16) cman110690: yes it is
(15:49:17) SadisticMystic1: GIR files are 400KB
(15:49:26) SadisticMystic1: for Mike's run, anyway
(15:49:31) cman110690: I have a .gir recording right by me
(15:49:37) cman110690: and its 9k
(15:49:45) cman110690: you .giz and its 14k
(15:49:50) SadisticMystic1: Right-click it
(15:49:54) cman110690: yep
(15:50:00) cman110690: Properties
(15:50:02) SadisticMystic1: Is one of the options called "Extract Here"?
(15:50:27) cman110690: Size 9.58(9,810bytes) for the .gir
(15:50:35) SadisticMystic1: The file is called "something.gir", but it's really a zipped file
(15:50:48) SadisticMystic1: which would normally get a giz extension, but it's not necessary
(15:50:53) cman110690: u said giz was zipped
(15:51:10) cman110690: Thats bull shit
(15:51:24) SadisticMystic1: if you rename the .gir to .giz, it will still play
(15:51:27) cman110690: I sent him your recording thru e-mail and he says something was done to it
(15:51:45) SadisticMystic1: Do you know what a MIME type is?
(15:52:20) cman110690: Dosent need to be talked about
(15:52:40) cman110690: If you guys were so desperate into winning that it lead into a discussable cheating act
(15:53:27) cman110690: Then thats not cool
(15:53:47) cman110690: You guys thought I'd be some ignorant idiot who wouldn't have seen it gone by
(15:54:11) cman110690: Are trying to bring in some new fancy story now?
(15:54:16) SadisticMystic1: If you extract either file, the .gir or the .giz, you will get another file
(15:54:30) cman110690: They are not extractable
(15:54:37) SadisticMystic1: If you tell Gens+ to play back that file, you get ANOTHER VALID RECORDING THAT PLAYS IDENTICALLY!
(15:54:48) SadisticMystic1: then download from http://7-zip.org
(15:54:57) SadisticMystic1: That will allow you to extract any file
(15:55:15) SadisticMystic1: though only valid archives will produce meaningful results when extracted
(15:55:17) cman110690: Your theory is still bull shit
(15:56:21) cman110690: regardless the filesize
(15:56:31) cman110690: compressed .giz is still larger than the .gir
(15:56:42) cman110690: Your just bringing some new bull shit
(15:56:50) SadisticMystic1: The proper extension for the compressed file is .giz, and for an uncompressed file is .gir, but it will be accepted by Gens+ either way
(15:56:55) SadisticMystic1: see this?
(15:56:56) SadisticMystic1: http://geocities.com/sadisticmystic1/sa2/walks/ee2.txt
(15:57:05) SadisticMystic1: it's a .txt file, but it produces a picture!
(15:57:18) cman110690: You can do that with any file
(15:57:18) SadisticMystic1: the same case here with gir and giz
(15:57:51) cman110690: Your saying that since you can do that with any file, it excuses you from the act of cheating?
(15:57:53) SadisticMystic1: Both of those files are compressed, despite their differing extensions
(15:58:04) SadisticMystic1: There is no cheating
(15:58:07) cman110690: yes
(15:58:17) cman110690: Did I show u the definition of cheating yet?
(15:58:26) SadisticMystic1: No trickery, no fraud.
(15:58:38) cman110690: Autofire
(15:58:42) SadisticMystic1: Where?
(15:58:49) cman110690: In your recording
(15:58:53) cman110690: just look at it
(15:58:54) cman110690: lol
(15:59:01) cman110690: it is so obvious
(15:59:15) SadisticMystic1: I gave you the list that shows the time each button was pressed.
(15:59:17) cman110690: Im starting to think twice about letting this thing go by
(15:59:30) SadisticMystic1: Where are the signs of autofire to be found in that list?
(15:59:30) cman110690: reshow
(15:59:35) cman110690: reshow
(15:59:47) SadisticMystic1: http://www.gdward.plus.com/input.txt
(16:00:05) cman110690: lol
(16:00:09) cman110690: How did u get that?
(16:00:24) SadisticMystic1: Sprint wrote a utility that accepts .gir, .giz, or .gmv as input
update: no -- it only accepts gir files
(16:00:34) cman110690: lol
(16:00:34) SadisticMystic1: and it prints out a list of the time each button is pressed
(16:01:33) cman110690: Sounds like another corrupt TSC gadget to me
(16:01:43) cman110690: Is there a way I could have it?
(16:01:49) cman110690: So I could test it out on my own?
(16:02:20) cman110690: because what turbo does is press all of those buttons repetitevely
(16:03:16) SadisticMystic1: Turbo cannot yield a series of presses that have the various sets of timing you see throughout the run
(16:03:31) cman110690: If it leads you guys into creating all of

(16:12:11) cman110690: So anyways about this button thing
(16:12:59) SadisticMystic1: He might revise it once more, to include when buttons are released
(16:13:19) cman110690: some of the buttons are pressed at the exact same time according to this sheet
(16:13:32) SadisticMystic1: That's certainly possible.
(16:13:51) SadisticMystic1: Note that if you press B and C at the same time while charging a spindash, you only get credit for 1 rev...not 2.
(16:15:24) cman110690: How can he press so many different buttons that fast under 1 second? While controlling his charcter at sonic 2
(16:15:43) SadisticMystic1: At no time are more than 14 buttons pressed in one second
(16:16:08) SadisticMystic1: and that's when charging up a spindash, when the only control you're worried about is "make me take off as fast as possible"
(16:16:12) cman110690: there is a good dozen though
(16:16:58) cman110690: let me try something
(16:17:48) cman110690: Why is C pressed so much more than the others?
(16:17:59) SadisticMystic1: because that's his primary jump button
(16:18:36) cman110690: He cant use the 2 others
(16:18:42) cman110690: because it will make him jump low
(16:18:48) cman110690: making that they are set to auto fire
(16:18:56) cman110690: that solves my case
(16:19:39) SadisticMystic1: Autofire would cause buttons to repeat the same on-off cycle of fixed length as long as the buttons are being held down
(16:19:50) cman110690: exactly
(16:20:03) cman110690: thats why he never jumps with A or B
(16:20:05) SadisticMystic1: There are not fixed time-lengths between all the A and B hits in spindash revs
(16:20:13) cman110690: but always spindashes alot more with A and B
(16:20:32) SadisticMystic1: What do you expect, that a player uses three primary jump buttons scattered all over the place?
(16:20:59) cman110690: No, but why would he just use a and b to spindash really
(16:21:07) cman110690: and only jump with C
(16:21:14) cman110690: Why wouldnt he just use C
(16:21:20) SadisticMystic1: because you only really need one button to jump
(16:21:29) SadisticMystic1: when it comes time to cpindash, just mash all three
(16:21:59) SadisticMystic1: because you can gain something by using more buttons to get faster taps, but not by arbitrarily choosing different buttons for each jump
(16:22:04) cman110690: It dosent work that way, you the buttons are alternating, A then Bm count the time between each A press
(16:22:17) SadisticMystic1: Let's look at some of the long revving strings:
(16:22:51) SadisticMystic1: 2:24 - A is pressed 10 times, B 4, C 9
(16:23:28) SadisticMystic1: 8:04 - A 11 (including 2 A hits in a row), B 10, C 9
(16:23:38) cman110690: Hes holding the 2 autofires and throwing in a C when he dashes
(16:24:09) SadisticMystic1: 20:10 - A 8, B 6, C 8
(16:24:14) cman110690: lol
(16:24:20) cman110690: thats all I got for 2:24
(16:24:20) cman110690: 02:24:01 -Press Down
02:24:14 -Press A
02:24:16 -Press B
02:24:20 -Press C
02:24:27 -Press A
02:24:27 -Press B
02:24:31 -Press C
02:24:38 -Press A
02:24:43 -Press C
02:24:50 -Press A
02:24:54 -Press C

(16:24:38) SadisticMystic1: the string starting at 2:24, extending into 2:25
(16:24:44) SadisticMystic1: until something other than A, B, or C is pressed
(16:25:15) cman110690: counting the C's after the directional presses?
(16:25:45) SadisticMystic1: The 2:24 sequence counts from 2:24:14 to 2:26:10
(16:26:35) SadisticMystic1: the next buttons, at 2:42, are part of a different level
(16:26:44) cman110690: Yeah but there's jumps without a directional press, everyone knows you dont press right after a dash
(16:27:38) SadisticMystic1: where are you getting the dash -> Right?
(16:28:26) cman110690: there isnt one till 2:43:22
(16:28:47) cman110690: theree dosent have to be
(16:29:03) cman110690: you can jump after a dash without pressing a button
(16:29:20) cman110690: all the A's are 11-13/100th of a second part
(16:29:22) SadisticMystic1: 2:43 is going up the chute in Chemical Plant 2
(16:30:08) SadisticMystic1: in the 2:24 sequence, As are separated by: 13, 11, 12, 10, 12, 12, 11, 13, 22
(16:30:20) cman110690: ok
(16:30:26) SadisticMystic1: autofire would repeat after exactly the same number of frames every time
(16:30:33) SadisticMystic1: ideally 2
(16:30:36) cman110690: So why's he pressing all those buttons inside of a chute?
(16:30:40) cman110690: That fast?
(16:30:43) cman110690: THAT*
(16:31:26) cman110690: Autofires wouldn't repeat at the EXACT same seconds
(16:31:36) SadisticMystic1: They would.
(16:31:46) SadisticMystic1: Computers are a lot more precise than 1/60 of a second
(16:32:03) cman110690: no lol
(16:32:12) SadisticMystic1: If another program wanted to generate a button press after exactly a given number of frames, it would do so every time with no error
(16:32:14) cman110690: the cheap joypads fluctulate like that
(16:32:29) cman110690: they arent perfect or else they would cost alot more
(16:33:04) cman110690: your statements aren't true
(16:33:21) SadisticMystic1: The price it takes to get a given level of quality (precision in this case) has gone down over time.
(16:33:25) cman110690: its not a program man
(16:33:28) SadisticMystic1: It is.
(16:33:31) cman110690: its on his very own joypad
(16:34:27) SadisticMystic1: Even the cheapest of autofire controllers can, when called on to use that feature, generate button presses exactly 2 frames apart, every time.
(16:35:08) cman110690: If it is a program doing it, then you just told on yourselves
(16:35:22) SadisticMystic1: There is no program at work other than Gens+.
(16:36:21) cman110690: You we'rent the player were you?
(16:36:26) SadisticMystic1: no
(16:36:39) cman110690: Then how can you truthfully answer that?
(16:38:02) cman110690: going to your resources?
(16:38:11) SadisticMystic1: I'll let Mike give the same answer when he comes back
(16:38:29) cman110690: How would I know he aint lying?
(16:38:39) cman110690: So many people lie these days
(16:38:43) cman110690: even my grandpa
(16:39:01) SadisticMystic1: What kind of setup could be used to verify the claim?
(16:39:27) cman110690: I have no idea but I think he should be the one explaining his gameplay
(16:39:51) SadisticMystic1: I'm familiar with what's going on in the gameplay at least
(16:40:14) cman110690: It isnt really verifyable unfortunately
(16:41:14) SadisticMystic1: The 2:24 sequence serves as a strong case against autofire
(16:41:48) SadisticMystic1: The button that can't be autofired is pressed 9 times, while the ones you claim were autofired get the uneven results of 10 and 4 over the same period
(16:42:43) cman110690: it is not separated perfectly because u've said yourself that this is new software
(16:43:06) SadisticMystic1: I'd expect new software to do a job a lot better than old software
(16:43:19) cman110690: Could be Beta
(16:43:37) cman110690: Your software could be wrong
(16:43:48) cman110690: New isnt always better than old
(16:44:38) cman110690: I mean
(16:45:04) SadisticMystic1: If someone wanted an autofire program, it is trivial to build one with completely accurate results
(16:45:18) SadisticMystic1: especially since your margin of error is 0.01666 seconds
(16:45:18) cman110690: Not if its created by someone like sprintgod, who said his timer was perfect, which it is not
(16:45:20) cman110690: at all
(16:45:31) cman110690: It has the timers going all over the place
(16:45:43) SadisticMystic1: Howdo they go "all over the place"?
(16:47:28) cman110690: In the bugfix hack, the timers get distorted
(16:47:36) SadisticMystic1: where?
(16:47:37) cman110690: They started counting incorrectly
(16:47:43) SadisticMystic1: How are they counting?
(16:48:18) cman110690: 24 seconds looks like 40
(16:48:29) SadisticMystic1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexadecimal
(16:48:45) SadisticMystic1: It's counting under that system, not the decimal system
(16:49:14) SadisticMystic1: The timer displayed on the screen is in decimal because that's what the overwhelming majority of players will understand
(16:49:37) SadisticMystic1: also 40 would be 28
(16:49:42) cman110690: its also inaccurate
(16:49:57) SadisticMystic1: how?
(16:50:32) cman110690: its suppose to be compatible with the majority of the players
(16:50:43) SadisticMystic1: The Debug feature isn't.
(16:50:44) cman110690: not where they have to get TSC to figure it out
(16:51:07) SadisticMystic1: Debug is for programmers who know what the values of bytes are supposed to mean.
(16:51:28) SadisticMystic1: Not everyone is simply capable of comprehending that matter.
(16:51:29) cman110690: Why is anybody debugging?
(16:51:50) SadisticMystic1: It has nothing to do with the in-game "debug code"
(16:52:05) SadisticMystic1: just a method of tracking how certain variables change over time
(16:52:18) cman110690: never said that
(16:52:34) cman110690: talking about debugging the game
(16:53:05) cman110690: You could have changed any variables for your own personal gain too
(16:53:17) SadisticMystic1: It's being used because the game isn't displaying certain information, and yet we know of a way to extract that hidden information, and it can make a difference in ranking
(16:53:21) cman110690: like how anything under 20 is fine
(16:53:30) cman110690: but anything after that can fudge up
(16:53:30) SadisticMystic1: If variables were changed mid-game, the input recordings won't work.
(16:54:58) SadisticMystic1: The reason for that is that the timer fix might cause certain runs to receive a different time bonus, meaning the button presses designed for the next level might begin before they'll have any effect, causing the recording to desync
(16:55:02) cman110690: not talking about changing them mid-game, talking about changing them where it gives unfair advantages
(16:55:29) SadisticMystic1: It's the same fix provided for everyone.
(16:56:19) cman110690: but you know your way around it, where as other people do not
(16:56:58) SadisticMystic1: Someone else might not know how to complete Oil Ocean in under 1:00, or how to use the propellor cut in Wing Fortress.
(16:57:01) cman110690: that's how you've manipulated everything in the pastw eek
(16:57:07) SadisticMystic1: Does that mean no one else is allowed to use those either?
(16:57:15) cman110690: you made the rules to accustom to your preferences
(16:57:31) SadisticMystic1: The team that has the greatest knowledge of the subject matter will generally prevail.
(16:58:02) SadisticMystic1: All MS runs that were submitted for the Olympics will play correctly on the original ROM.
(16:58:17) cman110690: then this means you;d have an idea why you;d be DQed
(17:00:04) SadisticMystic1: Mike made a run using only the keyboard and Gens+, and nothing in that run can't be replicated with correct play on a console.
(17:00:54) cman110690: SEGA Genesis also released the SEGA 6 button joypad controller
(17:01:01) cman110690: With TURBO feature
(17:01:07) cman110690: aka AutoFire
(17:01:49) SadisticMystic1: Even back then, autofire would be a lot more accurate than the mashing of buttons that Mike used.
(17:02:07) SadisticMystic1: The differences between taps on autofire is a consistent 2, 2, 2...not 10, 12, 13...
(17:03:04) cman110690: The autofire is accurate, that software isn't
(17:03:15) cman110690: If the bigfix is still buggy
(17:03:25) cman110690: how can you be sure that this is accurate?
(17:04:16) SadisticMystic1: The bugfix is accurate for playing back runs that were also recorded on the bugfix.
(17:04:49) SadisticMystic1: Because the timer was FIXED, that ROM might display a proper 20.58 for a run whereas the original ROM would give 21.03.
(17:04:53) cman110690: You guys also had more than gens+ playing also. if you guys were dumping your inputs on a txt
(17:04:56) cman110690: on top of that
(17:05:04) cman110690: its a TXT file! It can be edited.
(17:05:08) SadisticMystic1: The input dump was created long after the run was finished
(17:05:32) cman110690: [16:01] sadisticmystic1: The bugfix is accurate for playing back runs that were also recorded on the bugfix.
[16:01] sadisticmystic1: Because the timer was FIXED, that ROM might display a proper 20.58 for a run whereas the original ROM would give 21.03.
(17:05:36) cman110690: hmmm
(17:05:42) cman110690: Im not so sure about that
(17:05:46) cman110690: reread it
(17:06:05) cman110690: If it was created after the run anyways
(17:06:10) cman110690: HOW could this be the dump!?
(17:06:21) SadisticMystic1: The .giz file was already finished.
(17:06:38) SadisticMystic1: The program takes an already-finished GIZ for input, and gives a TXT as output
(17:07:08) cman110690: but that was a 22-24 second finish
(17:07:13) cman110690: that desyncs it
(17:07:26) SadisticMystic1: What was 22-24?
(17:08:17) cman110690: If its giz and its bigger than the .gir then SOMETHING MUST have SLOWED down the recording. On how much time it took to record
(17:08:41) cman110690: the MS game btw
(17:08:51) SadisticMystic1: The reason Mike's file is bigger is because a few kilobytes were allocated to "this is where the run starts off from"
(17:08:54) cman110690: because in that time frame
(17:08:58) cman110690: the rom desyncs
(17:09:03) SadisticMystic1: The other runs start from power on, so they don't have that overhead
(17:09:31) cman110690: I've done some test "allocated" test
(17:09:34) SadisticMystic1: If you record something on the original ROM, and it's 21-24 seconds, it might not play back properly on the timer fix.
(17:09:43) cman110690: and Ive had the same results as the other recording
(17:09:54) cman110690: so this does not explain it
(17:09:55) cman110690: :P
(17:10:12) SadisticMystic1: If it's recorded on the original and under 20 or over 25, it will play properly on the timer fix.
(17:10:26) cman110690: there you go
(17:10:30) cman110690: its inaccurate
(17:10:32) SadisticMystic1: If you record it on the timer fix, it will play back on that same ROM just fine, no  matter what the finish time is.
(17:10:34) cman110690: you just admitted it
(17:10:45) cman110690: You must be quoting sprint
(17:11:14) SadisticMystic1: If you get something that's 22.13 on timer fix, and 22.33 on original, it still plays back just fine
(17:11:25) SadisticMystic1: It doesn't ALWAYS desync within that window
(17:11:46) SadisticMystic1: only when the discrepancy provided by the timer fix crosses a seconds barrier that changes the time bonus
(17:12:08) cman110690: You dont know this for yourself that the rom is perfectly accurate. You are taking that info from another person. right?
(17:12:22) SadisticMystic1: The ROM is accurate against itself.
(17:13:04) cman110690: That dosent mean there are other bugs, ones you may not have noticed
(17:13:12) SadisticMystic1: Based on the changes provided in the fix (which are the only changes made), it's possible to figure out the cause of errors between the two versions on your own.
(17:13:16) cman110690: I mean if it took him that long to find it
(17:13:47) SadisticMystic1: If there's another bug in the original, then it's there for everyone.
(17:13:48) cman110690: lord knows what else there could be
(17:14:05) SadisticMystic1: The only bug that the timer fix changes is the game's failure to reset subseconds to 0 after a level
(17:14:15) SadisticMystic1: Nothing else in the entire ROM was changed
(17:14:21) cman110690: not talking about the original one
(17:14:33) cman110690: and besides
(17:14:38) cman110690: you dont know that
(17:14:48) cman110690: that nothing was else was changes
(17:14:51) cman110690: changed*
(17:15:04) cman110690: There could be other cans of worms opened
(17:15:24) SadisticMystic1: There is a tool called "diff"
(17:15:41) SadisticMystic1: Given two files as input, it displays everything that's different between the two files
(17:15:58) SadisticMystic1: Nothing was changed between the two except this timer reset fix.
(17:16:50) cman110690: Dosent mean a chain reaction could have occured
(17:16:58) cman110690: changing the timer changes alot
(17:18:23) SadisticMystic1: All that was changed is that the game now starts every level with a timer of 0.00, instead of 0.12 or 0.54 like it might on the original
(17:18:32) SadisticMystic1: It does not affect the other mechanics of the game.
(17:19:02) cman110690: lol
(17:19:09) cman110690: You didnt make the now did you?
(17:19:13) cman110690: the hack*\
(17:19:28) SadisticMystic1: No, but I've seen the output of diff for those two files.
(17:21:52) cman110690: ?
(17:21:59) cman110690: Dude
(17:22:05) cman110690: You dont really know then
(17:22:12) cman110690: You havent seen all the changes
(17:22:18) SadisticMystic1: Yes, I have.
(17:22:35) SadisticMystic1: "diff file1 file2" gives all of the changes between file1 and file2.
(17:23:23) cman110690: So.
(17:23:29) cman110690: Dosent mean he showed you everything
(17:23:45) cman110690: he may have made some last minute edits
(17:23:58) SadisticMystic1: If he did, then those edits would have shown up in diff.
(17:24:33) cman110690: Not if he didnt show it to you
(17:24:51) SadisticMystic1: I downloaded it from his site.
(17:24:59) SadisticMystic1: I have access to all the changes that were made.
(17:26:34) cman110690: just because the timer was the only changed variable dosent mean that could not have a domino effect
(17:27:04) SadisticMystic1: What could be changed simply because the timer starts at 0.00 all the time instead of 0.12 or 0.54?
(17:28:02) SadisticMystic1: And how would it wreck compatibility for videos that were bother recorded and played back on the timer fix version?
(17:28:33) cman110690: Why is the timer starting late?
(17:29:09) SadisticMystic1: because the minutes and seconds are reset to 0 before each level, but on the original ROM, subseconds weren't
(17:29:13) cman110690: and it does wreck compatibility, you already said that
(17:29:19) SadisticMystic1: so that variable picks up wherever it left off
(17:29:49) SadisticMystic1: It makes for potential desyncs for videos recorded on original and played back on timer fix.
(17:29:54) SadisticMystic1: That isn't disputed.
(17:30:06) SadisticMystic1: But what about videos both recorded and played back on timer fix?
(17:30:16) SadisticMystic1: There is no discrepancy with those at all
(17:30:48) cman110690: seems like you just tried toput a band-aid on it and not reall yFIX it
(17:31:08) cman110690: yes but u said the timer starts late anyways
(17:32:01) SadisticMystic1: Anything that changes what the timer might read, and thus might change time bonuses by crossing a seconds barrier, CANNOT be fully compatible with runs recorded on the original
(17:32:41) cman110690: Not everyone has you "bugfixed" game
(17:32:59) SadisticMystic1: That's why the runs can be played back using the original.
(17:33:44) cman110690: Then why do u call  it a bug fix?
(17:34:19) SadisticMystic1: Because, if everyone uses it as the default, it is more accurate.
(17:34:35) cman110690: All i seem to be hearing
(17:34:41) cman110690: is excuse after excuse
(17:34:41) SadisticMystic1: Runs done on original are played back on that, and runs done on timer fix (if any) can be played on that
(17:34:51) cman110690: hey
(17:34:53) cman110690: no
(17:34:57) cman110690: not perfectly accurate
(17:35:02) SadisticMystic1: A ROM that fixes the Sonic 1 "spike bug" will desync from its original when that bug comes into play
(17:35:08) SadisticMystic1: but it doesn't mean the ROM isn't a bugfix
(17:35:35) SadisticMystic1: Timer fix IS perfectly accurate when compared to itself.
(17:36:31) cman110690: lol
(17:36:38) cman110690: It just starts late
(17:36:43) cman110690: thats not really a fix
(17:36:53) SadisticMystic1: It starts at the same time
(17:37:13) SadisticMystic1: except the number is chooses to represent that time is always "0.00" instead of "0.23" or something
(17:37:56) cman110690: thats like setting back to the approriate time
(17:38:24) SadisticMystic1: No, because the game isn't jumping ahead or going backwards in time.
(17:38:52) SadisticMystic1: It's just setting a number to 0.
(17:39:05) cman110690: the number is changed nonetheless
(17:39:11) cman110690: making the time something it isnt
(17:40:18) cman110690: WHen the number represents time
(17:40:18) SadisticMystic1: If the previous level ended at 1:25.30, then the original ROM will start at 0:00.30 for the next level
(17:40:21) cman110690: you are changing time
(17:40:25) SadisticMystic1: Do you think it should stay 1:25.30?
(17:41:11) cman110690: you need to find a different, more advanced way to fix that then
(17:41:28) cman110690: not just changing one number
(17:41:44) SadisticMystic1: Anything that changes time has the possibility of changing time bonuses
(17:41:53) SadisticMystic1: making it incompatible with the original
(17:42:13) SadisticMystic1: No amount of fixing can change that
(17:43:01) cman110690: you dont know that
(17:43:09) SadisticMystic1: Yes, I do.
(17:43:09) cman110690: Im afraid we'll just jave too
(17:43:13) cman110690: Ok
(17:43:17) cman110690: How do u know that?
(17:43:51) cman110690: Sprint isnt the only programmer out there
(17:44:21) SadisticMystic1: Because time bonus takes longer to scroll through the bigger it is, and when the timer is reset from a number of frames that can be anywhere between 0 and 59, to 0, you can't make sure the time bonus will stay the sme
(17:45:54) cman110690: then find another way to edit it, because thats more not the proper way to do it
(17:46:10) cman110690: Theres more to programming than editing txt files
(17:46:24) SadisticMystic1: These aren't txt files being edited.
(17:46:35) SadisticMystic1: They're sms files, which are binaries.
(17:47:02) cman110690: which are edited in the proper program
(17:47:05) cman110690: Notepad
(17:47:19) SadisticMystic1: If you edit an SMS file in Notepad, you're a huge idiot.
(17:47:25) SadisticMystic1: You need a hex editor for those.
(17:47:43) cman110690: So you used a Hex editor?
(17:47:49) SadisticMystic1: Or a disassembler.
(17:48:31) cman110690: Your still using the same format by typing numbers into places
(17:48:59) cman110690: Apperently
(17:49:06) cman110690: According to what your telling me
(17:49:21) cman110690: You are very capable of editing the files.
(17:49:53) cman110690: You know exactly what to do
(17:50:41) SadisticMystic1: For well-documented file types.
(17:50:57) cman110690: A team whos depsperate into winning, knows what to do. Didnt do it?
(17:51:03) cman110690: no way jose
(17:51:34) cman110690: Thats why the file size is bigger
(17:51:40) cman110690: and you've decided
(17:51:50) cman110690: to use to "zipped" format of it
(17:51:52) SadisticMystic1: The file size is bigger because it has a savestate at the beginning.
(17:51:58) cman110690: so that the file can appear as small as possible
(17:52:53) cman110690: Hah
(17:53:01) SadisticMystic1: Send me the .gir that you claim isn't zipped, and I'll uncompress it and send you the full file that, if you'll plug it into Gens, will play the exact same movie.
(17:53:01) cman110690: Theres a save state for all of em
(17:53:12) cman110690: ok
(17:53:13) SadisticMystic1: Not the ones recorded from power-on
(17:54:41) cman110690: I have a proof for u little guy
(17:55:05) cman110690: its .giz
(17:55:18) cman110690: 40 minutes, 10 kilobytes
(17:55:25) cman110690: 4 to 1 ration
(17:55:27) cman110690 is offering to send file Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (39 minutes, 35 seconds).giz
(17:55:51) cman110690 canceled the transfer of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (39 minutes, 35 seconds).giz
(17:55:55) SadisticMystic1: Not sending.  E-mail it to questiondesk@gmail.com
(17:56:05) SadisticMystic1: Linux GAIM doesn't like file transfers
(17:56:09) cman110690: ok
(17:57:42) cman110690: it is sent
(17:58:23) cman110690: brb gotta pee
(18:00:07) cman110690: back
(18:00:44) SadisticMystic1: It says archive type isn't supported
(18:00:56) SadisticMystic1: I need to find something that will extract it on Linux
(18:01:04) SadisticMystic1: MIME type reads x-gzip
(18:01:18) cman110690: U should windows on it taking a small partition
(18:01:27) SadisticMystic1: I have Windows on 120GB
(18:01:30) cman110690: like this u can alternate
(18:01:33) SadisticMystic1: Linux on 40GB
(18:01:36) cman110690: oh
(18:01:42) cman110690: switch OS rly fast
(18:01:57) SadisticMystic1: I'd rather look for a tool to extract it here
(18:02:03) cman110690: ok
(18:02:34) SadisticMystic1: so that when you send the GIR that you claim isn't zipped, I can extract and upload it fast enough that there isn't enough to for any nonsense
(18:02:58) cman110690: its .giz
(18:03:07) cman110690: under the same conditions as Mikes
(18:03:08) cman110690: but
(18:03:09) SadisticMystic1: right now you've sent the GIZ
(18:03:13) SadisticMystic1: which is compressed
(18:03:20) cman110690: it respects the 4 to 1 ratio
(18:03:21) SadisticMystic1: my contention is that the GIRs are compressed as well
(18:03:34) cman110690: Now they are compressed?
(18:03:49) cman110690: The recording is longer
(18:03:55) cman110690: has the same conditions
(18:04:00) cman110690: has a smaller file size
(18:04:24) SadisticMystic1: and doesn't have a savestate at the beginning to display initial conditions
(18:04:26) cman110690: Cant outsmart the facts
(18:04:31) SadisticMystic1: because it's recorded from power on
(18:04:37) cman110690: not it dosent
(18:05:02) SadisticMystic1: there, solved my problem
note: the "problem" was that in this case it was paying attention to the extension, and wouldn't let me extract a .giz but would after I renamed it to .gz

(18:05:16) cman110690: It starts just before the SEGA screen like Mike's
(18:05:42) SadisticMystic1: Mike's starts at the "Sonic and Miles 'Tails' Prower" screen
(18:05:47) cman110690: lol
(18:05:47) SadisticMystic1: which is after the SEGA screen
(18:05:53) cman110690: no it does not
(18:06:06) cman110690: and IF!
(18:06:11) cman110690: he did that
(18:06:14) SadisticMystic1: http://www.soniccenter.org/sm/files/Sonic%...%20seconds).gir
(18:06:18) cman110690: It is totally illegal
(18:06:22) SadisticMystic1: there's the uncompressed version, 556 K
(18:06:29) cman110690: because the rule of having the SEGA logo recorded
(18:06:30) SadisticMystic1: It was legal at the time he recorded it
(18:06:32) cman110690: was always the must
(18:06:43) SadisticMystic1: It was not the rule until Wednesday
(18:06:44) cman110690: I have Mike's recording
(18:07:01) cman110690: he started recording 1 second black before the SEGA logo screen
(18:07:14) cman110690: same condition as this one
(18:07:19) SadisticMystic1: 13623 bytes?
(18:07:37) cman110690: yes
(18:07:41) cman110690: Mike's
(18:07:53) cman110690: is
(18:08:35) SadisticMystic1: Now send the GIR file to me, same e-mail
(18:08:40) cman110690: oj
(18:08:41) cman110690: ok
(18:10:24) cman110690: sent
(18:11:15) SadisticMystic1: uploading
(18:11:43) SadisticMystic1: http://www.soniccenter.org/sm/files/Sonic%...202marathon.gir
(18:11:55) SadisticMystic1: that's a 402KB uncompressed version
(18:12:00) cman110690: yep
(18:12:10) cman110690: and?
(18:12:13) SadisticMystic1: and it'll play the game in the same way as the 9K version from which it was extracted
(18:12:20) cman110690: yep
(18:12:33) cman110690: Which dosent really lead anywhere to your defence
(18:12:53) SadisticMystic1: It does, in that the .gir files you received are compressed, just like the .giz
(18:13:04) cman110690: yep
(18:13:10) cman110690: Which are like the same right?
(18:13:31) cman110690: But unlike the .giz we sent you
(18:13:52) cman110690: Mike's unknownfully bigger. I mean you guys know. But we dont.
(18:14:08) SadisticMystic1: Who was this "designer" of Gens+ that you talked to?
(18:15:03) cman110690: Stephen Cardoso
(18:15:36) cman110690: The more this goes on
(18:15:42) cman110690: The more it seems you guys lie
(18:15:53) cman110690: now ur saying .gir is compressed and not .giz
(18:16:00) SadisticMystic1: Google for the phrase "stephen cardoso" gens
(18:16:01) cman110690: They are both compressed qually
(18:16:05) SadisticMystic1: How many results do you get?
(18:16:12) cman110690: equally*
(18:16:14) SadisticMystic1: All compression is not equal.
(18:16:19) cman110690: hey
(18:16:33) cman110690: Then why does Mike's reocrding not fit the 4 to 1 ration?
(18:16:37) cman110690: ratio*
(18:16:41) cman110690: and the other .giz
(18:16:46) SadisticMystic1: Because it has overhead provided by the savestate.
(18:16:47) cman110690: under the same conditions
(18:16:52) cman110690: DOES
(18:16:59) cman110690: No it dosent
(18:16:59) SadisticMystic1: .giz and .gir differ only in name
(18:17:05) cman110690: Hey
(18:17:08) cman110690: I send u a .giz
(18:17:11) cman110690: same conditions
(18:17:15) cman110690: with a save state
(18:17:27) cman110690: the recording is longer
(18:17:31) SadisticMystic1: giz does not necessarily mean "has a savestate at the beginning".
(18:17:32) cman110690: shorter in file size
(18:17:38) cman110690: meets the 4 to 1 ratio
(18:18:04) cman110690: Mike's dosent
(18:18:12) cman110690: Im afraid I'll have to call this a cheat.
(18:18:24) cman110690: Your defence is repeatidly failing.
(18:18:44) cman110690: repeatitive*
(18:20:52) SadisticMystic1: Mike's run, the one that's 13623 bytes, starts from the Sonic and Miles "Tails" Prower screen
(18:20:55) SadisticMystic1: Boot it up and check.
(18:20:59) cman110690: ok
(18:21:02) cman110690: i'll do so
(18:21:52) cman110690: np ur wrong
(18:21:55) cman110690: nop*
update: yes, I was wrong here...I was basing it on the start time of the AVI file I generated from the recording
(18:22:08) cman110690: It start 1 second before SEGA Logo appears
(18:23:00) cman110690: and besides
(18:23:08) cman110690: it was always required to have the SEGA Logo screen
(18:23:13) cman110690: which he did have
(18:23:19) cman110690: unless ur trying to prove him wrong
(18:23:24) SadisticMystic1: Not until Wednesday.
(18:23:28) cman110690: no
(18:23:30) cman110690: it always has
(18:23:39) cman110690: Rolken even wrote it
(18:24:10) SadisticMystic1: http://scd.sclassic.net/so/
(18:24:24) SadisticMystic1: See that heading clearly labeled NEW Sonic 2 Marathon Rule?
(18:24:35) SadisticMystic1: Notice how it wasn't posted until the 16th?
(18:24:56) cman110690: That was only for the rule OPEN and Record
(18:24:59) cman110690: not sega logo screen
(18:25:12) cman110690: but anyways he did do it corretly
(18:25:17) cman110690: correctly*
(18:25:41) SadisticMystic1: And Stephen Cardoso is not a Gens developer.
(18:26:02) cman110690: Yes
(18:26:23) cman110690: I emailed the email Rodrigo Cardoso.
(18:26:30) cman110690: In response I got his brother
(18:26:36) cman110690: thru e-mail
(18:27:08) SadisticMystic1: What did he say about the file structure of a Gens input recording?
(18:27:35) cman110690: That it mainly has to do a 4 to 1 ratio
(18:27:57) cman110690: Normally a Gens+ saved recording will have a 1kb per 4minute ratio
(18:28:01) cman110690: of a recording
(18:28:21) SadisticMystic1: Anything else he said?
(18:28:42) cman110690: No I only asked him that one question
(18:30:14) SadisticMystic1: That's a statement on the quality of gzip compression, not of Gens recording file structure.
(18:30:42) cman110690: No, sounds like a file structure to me
(18:32:05) cman110690: I really gotta go now

27
Competition Central / The Official Guides/Videos Feedback Topic
« on: October 16, 2005, 12:36:19 pm »
This is a place to discuss all those non-record items you can submit here.

Found an error in a guide?  Think you have something that makes it more complete?  Just want to comment on it?

And with videos, maybe you've found something that makes the route shown in one obsolete?  Obviously it's harder to change these than to change guides, but will the effort of making a new one cause it to look sufficiently more impressive that it's worth reposting?

Think  there's an underrepresented level that should have a walkthrough in text or visual form, but doesn't yet?

This is the topic where you discuss all that.

28
General Sonic / Sonic 1 & Knuckles
« on: September 01, 2005, 05:45:39 pm »
Yesterday, the user "Stealth" at another board, who's already responsible for the collection of maps hosted here, released a new ROM.

You get one preview picture from me:


The rest you have to figure out on your own.

29
Wikkity! / ITT we use Firefox
« on: December 15, 2004, 11:56:37 pm »
<img src="http://sylvana.net/test/AP4.jpg" width=0 height=0>Outside of the topic, I don't care what you do, but in this topic you will use Firefox...or you will PAY!!!!!!

so anyway...anyone know how to put a Quick Launch application toolbar on Firefox? [EDIT] Found...on with the show.

30
Gaming and Grazing / Let's set up a free DS network!
« on: November 21, 2004, 01:52:14 pm »
http://www.trialclix.com/register.asp?refID=52914

Click that.  TrialClix is a "fill out offers to get points, then spend points to get stuff" place--and that free stuff includes GameCube and the DS.  Comments about this particular service are very satisfactory.

I vote we abuse the hell out of them.

First get a TrialClix account.  When you sign up you get 50 free points, and the referral link you used gets 75 free points.

Then, on to the offers.  Different offers are worth different numbers of points, but some require you to buy stuff.  Some bad.  Some will just nag you for information when you tell them how to contact you.

Remember:
Providing fake contact info for the TrialClix account itself = BAD (you don't want your DS to be mailed to a nonexistent address, do you?)
Providing fake info for the offers = GOOD

U.S. residents only, but those of you outside the U.S. are welcome to click on other users' referral links if you think they deserve 75 points or something.  Address doesn't come in until you're ready to redeem points for a prize.

Also if you have multiple computers on different networks, feel free to use them to create accounts with you as referrer.  Who can resist a little point-gathering competition?

Pages: [1] 2 3
Hits: 688 | Hits This Month: 3 | DB Calls: 8 | Mem Usage: 1.61 MB | Time: 0.13s | Printable

The Sonic Center v3.9
Copyright 2003-2011 by The Sonic Center Team.