The TMSC Forum

Welcome Center => News and Updates => Topic started by: Thorn on April 29, 2015, 11:15:08 PM

Title: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on April 29, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
After much thought, I've decided to pass the torch of Head Admin on to the next person. I've been sliding out of touch with the speedrunning community as of late and haven't had the motivation to work with the site. I also don't have the knowledge of all 52 games and two DLC expansions on the site that I need to in order to separate valid BS calls from invalid ones nor do I have the power to fix some issues on the site. I don't get to see any of the social scene on TSC anymore, as it's moved off-site into smaller pockets in which I don't get involved unless called for. When I do get called for, it's typically not for good things; for example, I've recently watched old friends go at each other's throats over events tied to the site. All of this has been a bit much to deal with (and frankly makes me come off more than a bit whiny when all I experience is the negatives), so I think it's time that I give my title to people more willing to invest time into the site with a positive attitude.

As GerbilSoft currently has the most power on the site, he will carry the Head Admin title from here forward.

Thank you to everybody who's been pleasant and helpful during my time heading the site.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on April 29, 2015, 11:46:37 PM
Of course being the head admin of tsc you are also the head punching bag, if things go wrong, we need/want blame you. we need to blame someone right? to avoid blaming ourselves. I think I speak for everyone when I say we dont want you to go though? can we at least vote on it?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Parax on April 30, 2015, 12:08:25 AM
You guys may as well remove me from admin status too. I haven't really been a part of TSC since dropping out of IRC which isn't really fair to the community, and honestly I feel like I've gotten to the point of moving on from this site.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on April 30, 2015, 12:25:56 AM
Im personally disgusted by everyone who's viewed this and not posted their thoughts.

we really dont want thorn and parax to leave, if you dont have site leaders, you really do have a dead site. I cant force anyone to encourage them to stay, but everyone should show them support in staying.

you came to this site all the days you wanted to, they came all the days that "needed/had" to. its a big difference, and shouldn't go unnoticed.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on April 30, 2015, 02:11:17 AM
Well, you've done a lot here Thorn. I can understand where you're coming from, and I wish you the best wherever you go.

To be honest, I'm surprised Parax hasn't done this earlier. It's been quite a long time since you've done anything on the site, frankly. Anyways, you've still dedicated a lot to the site and I hope the best of you in whatever game you decide to run next (you're the only reason I'm on the site, in all honesty. I really do need to thank you).

I'm hoping Gerbil will be up to the task of handling head admin, which (I assume) would mean needing to be more active in areas other than the site's development/programming. We'll see where it goes from here.

S&A:

I wouldn't say the site is dead. Parax was basically inactive for more than a year, and the site went along fine without one of their main admins. (Fine in a clinical sense, there may have been more tension that I'm not aware of) While, yes, this is big, it already happened for a short amount of time back in 2014, no? I think the site will get along fine. Gerbil, while not very active on the forums, is decently active on IRC and making sure that the site is functioning as normal. Flying Fox, from my experiences with talking to her, is still trying to get used to the position. I still feel like in the long run, she'll be fine. Zeupar is one of the best admins I know. He knows when to be casual and when not to be. He's one of those people made to run a site like this (or any group). It's not like TSC will collapse within the next few days or anything. This happens a lot to many sites, many groups, many businesses. Things will go on just fine.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Zeupar on April 30, 2015, 02:57:31 AM
I guess the main question now is why SonicAD refuses to give up his position as site owner when he hasn't done anything for TSC in years. It's ridiculous, to be honest.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on April 30, 2015, 02:05:35 PM
Okay, this post won't go on the front page, so I can be a bit more direct here.

I should note one caveat to my resignation. Just in case an emergency happens, I have admin powers in a secondary usergroup. I just don't plan to use them for anything super meaningful.

You guys may as well remove me from admin status too. I haven't really been a part of TSC since dropping out of IRC which isn't really fair to the community, and honestly I feel like I've gotten to the point of moving on from this site.

Note sure why you didn't just remove yourself, but okay, it's done.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we dont want you to go though? can we at least vote on it?

I basically let that happen last year when all of the silent people suddenly spoke up about it, so I returned. Unfortunately, not much changed upon my return. If anything, I can't pull the same "leave, then return" stunt twice or it starts losing meaning.

I guess the main question now is why SonicAD refuses to give up his position as site owner when he hasn't done anything for TSC in years. It's ridiculous, to be honest.
We were planning to post the "Best of March" on the front page today. Would posting it in a few hours make you feel bad?

That second one is a PM, which I guess means I'm a bad person for sharing, but I had to put those two quotes together to say "wow, that's just plain dickish; fuck you." I don't expect anybody to feel forced to say goodbye or to weep at this turn of events, but to immediately question if you can strip somebody else of a title too and then ask if you can bury this topic's announcement to post things about March at the end of April? I hope you step on a Lego barefoot for those sentiments. It was nice working with you too.

Thorn leaving changes the shift of TSC entirely. Now, whenever a dispute has to be decided, it's Gerbil making the calls, and he's probably not around often enough and/or at the "right times" to do just that (not his fault, ofc, but it's the truth).

Giving GerbilSoft the title was more symbolic than anything. The fact of the matter is that the things people have wanted fixed lately have only been accessible by GerbilSoft, so the title went to the person who has that power. Honestly, I expect that he'll notice this topic within a few days and immediately throw the title at Zeupar. It won't mean Zeupar has any more power, though.

As far as I see it, this might begin the (slow) final decline of TSC, once and for all.

No, the final decline began when the community became toxic enough to push me away, not when I took the actual step. If A leads to B and shit happens after B, blame A. I know that I made most of my points in my resignation post about how I felt out of touch, but I wasn't going to call people out on the front page. I left my position because I was sick of watching people use this website to be assholes to each other or to reward immature behavior.

BS calls have become witch hunts. The supersonic917 BS call is the quintessential example, with a few people barging into the topic without permission and a large swath of the community discussing spurious evidence in Skype groups. They may have been right in the end, but that doesn't justify the methods used. For another example, I also had people saying that the best times for the Big Foot boss in Sonic Adventure 2 must be false because they scoured the web and couldn't find anybody else that good. When I pointed out both that one of the people at the top was well respected with no reason to lie and nobody had hard evidence, I started getting yelled at and told I was "corrupt" and making "excuses". Of course, the very next day, I was messaged saying there was a non-TAS video of the top time all along. Hell, I'll give a third example: I currently have a long text file from a member regarding possible cheating in Sonic 1, but half of the arguments within are "the player didn't do this thing how other speedrunners do it" while the other half are "the player used the strategy other speedrunners use this time" but with an angry tone. How do you work with such logic? We're at a point where faking proof is too easy and making BS calls based on hard evidence is nearly impossible, but that doesn't make it okay for people to make BS calls without that evidence.

Dickish behavior is being tolerated and even applauded for some reason. When The Kid throws a tantrum and further destroys broken charts, the correct response is not to glorify the act in YouTube videos and give him lots of Twitter attention. When there's drama between notable site members that threatens to draw everybody in, calling the head admin of said site part of the peanut gallery and saying he'd better not get involved is not the right course of action either. When I do get asked to be involved in drama but I need to do something in the real world such as go to work, I don't care to hear that the timing of my real world obligations is "convenient" for dodging the drama (that we just said some people didn't want me in anyway); I couldn't imagine telling my students that their teacher couldn't make it to class because he had to solve problems for a Sonic the Hedgehog site. Coming home to drama like this after work was never fun.

Everybody seems to want to be a special snowflake lately, and if that special snowflakeness isn't shown to everybody on the site, it's not good enough. It's also the case that people are holding other people to standards that don't actually affect anything on the site. For instance, The Kid destroyed those charts even though everybody who knew him was aware of his zero-point championship just because the site wasn't giving him the title. Zeupar just asked for SonicAD to relinquish the "site owner" title as if somebody else having the words "site owner" in his/her profile would make the person more special or powerful. The two former TSC Race Night moderators started snapping at each other because they each believed the other wasn't upholding the ideals associated with the title, and one of the two even said that without the title, he/she would not do any more work for Race Nights because he/she wouldn't feel special. Even being a moderator on Twitch channels with 10 viewers is considered important to some people around here. These are all just arbitrary titles and aren't worth drama!

Speaking of drama, I found an amusing Twitter exchange that talked about two people claiming they'd stop dealing with recent TSC social drama but that had a screenshot of what looked to be such drama. How exactly does bringing it up again help? Pretend it doesn't exist and use your block button liberally if it gets overwhelming (note: admins don't have the luxury of burying their heads in the sand like that). Poking around Twitter right now, I see a few TSC-related profiles that are mentioning recent drama even now because everybody's so helpful!Twitter, Skype, Twitch, etc. have block buttons for a reason. Use the damn button instead of acting like kindergartners and then having everything traced back to TSC. Similarly, if you want to minimize drama, don't give people moderator powers in your Twitch channels and Skype groups unless they can use the power responsibly; friendship does not equal responsibility.

My two cents to many of you guys would be to start managing your online friendships better while putting less attention on being some special, recognized person, as your missteps drag in everybody around you. Don't throw around accusations you can't prove, don't shit talk as much (and certainly not publicly), don't award assholery, and branch out of your closest circles of friends once in a while. I have a special Skype group for my closest friends from another website, but I also speak in the site's many IRC channels and touch base with every friendly site member there. Perhaps you could do the same with #soniccenter to stir up a friendlier community? I shouldn't have had to look at a group of my friends who identify as furries—the stereotypical Internet drama group—and think "Wow, if only I had such open, friendly, and accepting people on my website!" Of course, I don't have to think that anymore, because it's no longer my website. :)



FUCK do I hate having to organize these sorts of rants. On a lighter note, does anybody feel like actually having a good time doing anything online? I'm free tomorrow night and I know 200cc Mario Kart 8's been a blast. :P I've been interested in D&D and Pathfinder lately too. Also, as always, I'm looking to polish my waning Puyo Puyo (Mean Bean Machine) skills if anybody wants to puzzle like it's 1993.~
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Parax on April 30, 2015, 03:09:22 PM
For me, it's been a while since I really did anything on TSC so I can't totally remember. But this community was fantastic to me for the first few years after I joined. Since then the site's been in decline and everyone knows it. As an admin what I really wanted to do was bring back the community feeling we had years ago, but it became plainly apparent over time that that wasn't going to happen. Far as I'm concerned, the site is past its prime. TSC is ostensibly about competition, but the site's biggest pieces of functionality are being replaced by ingame leaderboards and YouTube videos. Speedrunning is getting more and more competitive and video-based (between YouTube and Twitch), but TSC still operates purely on the honor system using a system that was implemented in 2003 (twelve years ago) and nobody is willing to change it. It is easier than it's ever been to cheat and falsify proof, yet nobody wants to strengthen proof requirements. TSC is never going to be a competitive hub as long as it sticks its head in the sand and ignores what the world of competition actually looks like in 2015. Site updates are direly needed but the only person with knowledge of the existing codebase and the skills to make it happen is GerbilSoft, and I really don't blame him for not taking on such a gargantuan task by himself in service of a dying community.

In any case, the good I can do personally as an admin is limited. I proposed a lot of ideas, but I don't have the means to make them happen. I can't make this site into what it needs to be, and as of late I've lost interest in trying. I started appearing in IRC less frequently last year because things were getting busy for me, in between other major personal projects I was working on and moving several states away. My nick on IRC ended up expiring and was snatched up by someone from pokemon-lake. SurrealChat staff did not want to help me get it back and decided to freeze the nick so no one could use it instead. At this point it barely seemed worth being on IRC, because outside of TSC, a community I was losing interest in and not visiting very often anymore anyway, I had other ways of contacting everyone I knew on SurrealChat. I let everyone in the IRC channel know I wouldn't be coming by IRC anymore - which limits a lot of what I can do as an admin because a lot of site functionality is not accessible through the site itself and can only be used through CodeGirl - but that people could contact me if I was needed for anything on the site. And nobody ever did. I had flying fox poke me on Skype to ask questions or ask for advice a few times, but that's it. I kind of figured people would at least be upset with me for up and disappearing on TSC, which I did feel a bit bad about, but nobody ever expressed anything like that to me. So I ended up with the impression that no one really cared that I wasn't doing anything as an admin.

At this point I don't think there is much good I can do for TSC. I've lost interest in the community. I'm much more focused on modding and development, something I find more rewarding and interesting than speedrunning, and something I see more of a future for myself in than this. I'm less and less a part of the speedrunning community and of TSC as time goes on, and I've been out of the loop long enough that I don't really know what's going on anymore. I have no idea what the community issues Thorn is talking about are.

For anyone interested in taking up the torch and trying to reform TSC into a competitive site suitable for competition in 2015, here is my advice: don't. TSC has too much baggage accumulated over the years for any meaningful change to happen. It needs a full redesign from scratch and a relaunch, to the point that I feel like that time would be better spent designing a new site entirely from the ground up rather than trying to shape TSC into what it needs to be.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Like I said I'm out of the loop, so apologies if any of what I said is incorrect or outdated.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on April 30, 2015, 03:28:20 PM
^ I think what you said is fine. I see that side of things too. However, I can handle a broken system if people can all trudge through it nicely. The community decline is what killed it for me.

Which reminds me, if you're reading any of this and thinking it doesn't apply to you, maybe it doesn't! This isn't the majority I'm addressing; it's the active minority. I'm sorry that the minority set the tone for the whole community.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Zeupar on April 30, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
That second one is a PM, which I guess means I'm a bad person for sharing, but I had to put those two quotes together to say "wow, that's just plain dickish; fuck you." I don't expect anybody to feel forced to say goodbye or to weep at this turn of events, but to immediately question if you can strip somebody else of a title too and then ask if you can bury this topic's announcement to post things about March at the end of April? I hope you step on a Lego barefoot for those sentiments. It was nice working with you too.

Huh? I guess you were too busy thinking I was mindlessly shitting on you to actually reason out what drove me to post that, which was the fact that two people stepping down seemed like the perfect scenario to bring up the old issue of having a site owner that doesn't do anything for the site he owns.

The end of April is definitely much better than the beginning of May to post March-related content, yes. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with that private message. I guess we are even after your extremely salty overreaction?

Everybody seems to want to be a special snowflake lately, and if that special snowflakeness isn't shown to everybody on the site, it's not good enough.(...)Zeupar just asked for SonicAD to relinquish the "site owner" title as if somebody else having the words "site owner" in his/her profile would make the person more special or powerful.(...)These are all just arbitrary titles and aren't worth drama!

That's you misinterpreting things again (maybe because of an angry state of mind?). The reason I asked him that is because having someone who hasn't posted in almost three years as the site owner does give a very bad impression of TSC. That wasn't about e-penis or TSC fame (even the thought of the concept makes me chuckle lol).

In any case, I find really sad the way you decided to go about this.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on April 30, 2015, 04:17:02 PM
^ I find it sad that you're still hung up on the idea of "site owner" meaning anything. New members don't seek out the site owner immediately and can easily be directed to other admins. This seems like needless calling for somebody's head. We had a long talk about how titles are pretty meaningless around here, and I'm disappointed that this still matters. Who should bare the illustrious title of owner of a site in decline? Have you asked if it really affects people's perceptions of the site?

Post whatever you want on the front page, since your position is higher than mine now (hell, I could get banned), but I think when a radical site change like this happens, you shouldn't even have to question if the past or the present is more important.

I also apologize for any drama my posts are instigating in trying to take down other drama. In general, I've found that letting the assholes hide in private hasn't changed anything, but things seem to change a bit, if only temporarily, when I air dirty laundry. This is hopefully my last time ever having to do such a thing, but I see people are still yelling at each other on Twitter anyway…
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 07:46:55 PM
It's funny really that you have the "Broseidon" title while being literally the worst.

(http://tohno-chan.com/lol/src/137226978475.jpg)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 07:54:12 PM
I don't actually read your posts, I just shitpost people that behave like tits.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 08:00:15 PM
Nah I'm good, shitposting with no context is much more entertaining~
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 08:08:41 PM
Thanks! : )
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Diamond on April 30, 2015, 08:34:46 PM
Since my tweet was mentioned, I find it only fair to respond and defend myself.
I seriously am not sure what drama is being mentioned, I just posted that because I felt like it and I saw it being mentioned quite a bit on twitter.
So I am sorry for possibly worsening this problem.
:^)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on April 30, 2015, 08:41:40 PM
That's not a defense, diamond, that's an apology.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: DsSaster on April 30, 2015, 08:56:15 PM
As much as it sucks to see this situation arise, it's understandable.

In addition to that, I agree spot-on with what Parax said in his earlier post unfortunately. I don't have much of anything to add to it, but I do feel that TSC is past its prime. I'm still popping up around TSC from time to time, but it's almost always for competition and not much more (and the competition I offer just feels forced mostly). Many fun times were had here, it got me into competitive Sonic gaming and later full-game speedruns, and has also formed some strong friendships that continue to go on currently. However, the fire that kept me in the irc and constantly competing on the site has seemingly been put out. It's sad to think about sometimes, since TSC was my #1 thing to partake in for years. I mean hell, just thinking about it now, I haven't had the SONIC HEROES championship of all games for quite some time and I've pretty much not cared to do anything about it. There's also a ton of stats that I've done through making videos on YouTube that I didn't even bother to think about uploading the stat to TSC, something I'd never come close to doing in my earlier days on the site. Despite the few things I've done to get both me and others into/back into the site, I honestly don't know how much longer I'll continue to care about this site. Regardless of what happens to TSC in the future I can at least say some good times were had and I'm glad that I found this site back in 2007. Thank you for everything you've done Thorn, as well as anyone else that reads this that helped maintain the site and/or offered some healthy competition.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on April 30, 2015, 09:10:08 PM


A 0p Championship is/was probably one of the most prestigious titles to have on the site, not to mention it's an earned title. It's a rare sight to see someone dominate a game completely.

I don't condone The Kid's actions, but this is not something he did just for the title, though it was still something he rightfully earned.

That was all from the same paragraph.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 09:13:23 PM
ALL OF THIS DRAMA COMES BACK TO TITLES

ILLUMINATI 9/11
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on April 30, 2015, 09:32:54 PM
He openly admitted that he did it for JUST the title. Unless you mean to tell me that he did it to just break TSC on top of getting the title... ?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 09:43:17 PM
^ I would not know what his true motives were, but it at least implies that he did it to make a statement (which also can be inferred as nothing will stand in his way of getting what he rightfully deserves, even if it means screwing up a whole chart).

I can go a bit further if you like, but I'd rather focus on better points than what amounts to "ooh, I found a contradiction" and then not saying anything else, if you please.

(http://pinkie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw115_130102210117.png)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on April 30, 2015, 10:10:04 PM

I did say I would stop organizing RN if there were no titles.  I say this because without anyone taking the designation of Race Night mod, the whole concept goes with it. There remains 0 reason to "have" to organize things (and I mean on TSC) if you have to go through the process of working with the community as equals.


Without some leadership, the concept is doomed to fail from the start. There are a lot of games to choose from, a large potential pool of people, etc. Trying to set up a series race requires people that will race just about anything, and there's barely anyone that's active these days that will.


I will admit the title would have served more purpose if it reflected the two most consistent racers, since that instills confidence in people joining, but if you have no one setting up some consistent races, the community will be indifferent to setting them up themselves,

You're basically calling "the community" out for being too lazy to even set up races by themselves, and even if they did, it doesn't belong to TSC anymore, since there's no titles involved?


Think of a title as an agreement without a contract - if you are willing to do X, then you get title Y, with associated power Z, based upon the judgement of the person with the power to give the title out.

So you're no longer wanting to organize racenights (save for the personal issues), because the title Y that you want is no longer warranted by just willing to do X, instead of organizing racenights for ~actually~ having racenights.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on April 30, 2015, 10:40:38 PM
Honesty I think I should be head admin of the site, but I will settle for just regular admin status.

It seems to me a big theme about this is BS calls. Reading between the lines it seems to me the BS calling takes a serious emotional toll on thorn, which I can understand. this site has always had a huge unspoken stink about BS calling. With it a huge side of fear of being wrong, to the point that 100% pinpoint accuracy is needed to fire the BS cannon, when in reality some stats don't meet this requirement, and may need to come under question.

Im a veteran of this site, and its been like this from day one when I joined about 100 years ago. Fear, and even scolding for bringing ones stats into question. Me personally I wore it as a badge of honor, im a legitimate player, and loved that my times where good enough to be in consideration of fake.

I bring this up because if you want to talk seriously talk about moving forward and becoming relevant again THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE! people on the fence about coming to this site need to know that the stats they are trying to conquer are valid stats. There is nothing wrong with asking for proof!

this is where I understand thorns "special snowflake" rant. if this where to be instantly instituted you would have your generic 2 or 3 guys just looking to be different, loud, obnoxious, and list insane, super niche occasions where this system would fail, and argue 'LOL NOPE LETS NOT DO IT." without even trying.

P.S. thats a pretty pony rpg
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on April 30, 2015, 10:51:24 PM
FINALLY someone that speaks sense
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: kirbymastah on May 01, 2015, 01:17:45 AM
(ignoring a lot of the drama idk anything about)

I've only been here for a short time (a little over a year) and I know that there was a time a few years ago where there was a ton of competition and activity on TSC. I really wish I were around at the time but that's life, and I miss it.

I can't admit that I've gotten to know the TSC admins well (I've only really talked with flyingfox more than the others), but I do recognize and thank you for the work you've put into this site, both before I joined and after.

As for TSC "dying", I sorta agree with what parax said. If the site's going to have a complete overhaul, it might be best to just start over from scratch to keep up with standards set by today. But that would be a really huge undertaking and require a lot of manpower, and quite frankly, I don't think there's enough people in the community that would be willing to help out and do so.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Zeupar on May 01, 2015, 02:30:48 AM
No, the final decline began when the community became toxic enough to push me away, not when I took the actual step. (...) I know that I made most of my points in my resignation post about how I felt out of touch, but I wasn't going to call people out on the front page. I left my position because I was sick of watching people use this website to be assholes to each other or to reward immature behavior.
(...)
Dickish behavior is being tolerated and even applauded for some reason.
(...)
Everybody seems to want to be a special snowflake lately, and if that special snowflakeness isn't shown to everybody on the site, it's not good enough.

Which reminds me, if you're reading any of this and thinking it doesn't apply to you, maybe it doesn't! This isn't the majority I'm addressing; it's the active minority. I'm sorry that the minority set the tone for the whole community.

These two quotes put together have me dumbfounded. So you ackowledge most of the claims you made about the community apply only to the minority yet you still decided to base your line of argumentation for your decision on admittedly inaccurate disrespectful generalizations about our community? Now, that's dickish, and I would say it confirms my assumption that your long "more direct" post was written out of spite, disregarding truth and accuracy in the process. Do you really think picturing our community in your post as a pile of assholes was a good idea? Or did it not matter to you because your level of involvement on the site had just changed? Again, I'm really sad and disappointed by the way you decided to go about this.

A 0p Championship is/was probably one of the most prestigious titles to have on the site, not to mention it's an earned title. It's a rare sight to see someone dominate a game completely. Is it really The Kid's fault to act upon inaction of admins when the obsoletion of Total - Total probably would have done the job?

Yes, it is.

Not to mention awards still can't be awarded retroactively, which, had the opposite been true, we wouldn't even be talking about this unless The Kid was still impatient.

Still not something that justifies disruptive submission behavior (nothing does, really). We could probably make that possible, anyway.

Honesty I think I should be head admin of the site, but I will settle for just regular admin status.

It seems to me a big theme about this is BS calls. Reading between the lines it seems to me the BS calling takes a serious emotional toll on thorn, which I can understand. this site has always had a huge unspoken stink about BS calling. With it a huge side of fear of being wrong, to the point that 100% pinpoint accuracy is needed to fire the BS cannon, when in reality some stats don't meet this requirement, and may need to come under question.

Im a veteran of this site, and its been like this from day one when I joined about 100 years ago. Fear, and even scolding for bringing ones stats into question. Me personally I wore it as a badge of honor, im a legitimate player, and loved that my times where good enough to be in consideration of fake.

I bring this up because if you want to talk seriously talk about moving forward and becoming relevant again THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE! people on the fence about coming to this site need to know that the stats they are trying to conquer are valid stats. There is nothing wrong with asking for proof!

this is where I understand thorns "special snowflake" rant. if this where to be instantly instituted you would have your generic 2 or 3 guys just looking to be different, loud, obnoxious, and list insane, super niche occasions where this system would fail, and argue 'LOL NOPE LETS NOT DO IT." without even trying.

omg ies less do dis
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 01, 2015, 03:02:28 AM
Honesty I think I should be head admin of the site, but I will settle for just regular admin status.

...

With your past (and still honestly your present) on the site, I think it's unlikely you'll get much of any status.

Hyper:

I am perhaps being a bit optimistic. I don't think that this will affect the site as much as you think it will, still. It'll more than likely be a mix of various statements from both of us.

DsS:

I'd agree. TSC as a whole has been getting less and less competition (though, S06 has been the most active since 2007-2008). While, there are peaks of activity, I feel that TSC will more than likely stay at the level of activity it currently is, if not lower. I don't feel that TSC, with what it currently is, will ever reach what it was back in 2007-2010. Speedrunners after that time moved onto RTAs. A lot of people from TSC (and even CS) moved from doing ILs to doing RTA SS runs. It's just the way that speedrunning has gone. It's honestly unlikely that ILs will be back to the main focus of speedrunners or even speedrunning in general.



I hope this doesn't become a drama-filled melancholy topic like the Emulator Issues topic a while back. That drama was excessive and unnecessary. Don't let it get to that point again. There's no need for this drama on a site just about submitting scores for various Sonic games. I've talked to Otonyshi previously about it and he's stated to me that's one of the things he doesn't like about TSC in the slightest (this was around the time of the emulator topic). Honestly, I'm with him. I can see how the drama on the forums can cause a new user to feel overwhelmed by the discussion in of itself and the manner it is talked about by some of the users on the site. (Yes, this might feel unrelated in its entirety to some, but the things that I see being brought up are going in the direction that the emulator topic did.)

I'll say my thoughts again: I feel that TSC will do just fine. It's not like the current admins are somehow worse without Thorn. While, I know Thorn was helping FF, I still feel FF is a good enough admin on her own, though she might need a bit more experience to feel completely comfortable in the position. Zeupar is absolutely great at his position, he's well thought out and knows exactly how to act in the position. As for Gerbil...Well, I still don't know Gerbil very well. I know he handles the technical aspect of the site well, not sure about the social aspect.

Geez, I typed a lot.

(P.S.: I think that the site does need to make who the staff are more clear. I know from experience back when I originally joined the site how hard it was to find out who the right people to ask certain things were.)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 01, 2015, 07:40:11 AM
I don't think I've been around long enough to have much of a say in this, but I would like to voice my opinion on one thing in particular, and this was earlier in this topic; shit-posting from one particular admin, you know who you are.

In my view, and this is just one example, it can leave the wrong impression on a newcomer to the site. They could take a look at this topic & think to themselves "that's who they choose as their admins?" Honestly, that's what came to my mind. It doesn't seem like behavior befitting a TSC admin. I guess the point of this is, your posts can have a greater impact on our viewers than you might think, so think before you post.

That's all I really have to say. I don't know the other active admins on here at all to be honest.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 01, 2015, 10:21:33 AM
If you mean me, I'm not an admin; I can shitpost as much as I like.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on May 01, 2015, 12:23:00 PM
These two quotes put together have me dumbfounded. So you ackowledge most of the claims you made about the community apply only to the minority yet you still decided to base your line of argumentation for your decision on admittedly inaccurate disrespectful generalizations about our community? Now, that's dickish, and I would say it confirms my assumption that your long "more direct" post was written out of spite, disregarding truth and accuracy in the process. Do you really think picturing our community in your post as a pile of assholes was a good idea? Or did it not matter to you because your level of involvement on the site had just changed? Again, I'm really sad and disappointed by the way you decided to go about this.

I'm not sure I see what could leave you dumbfounded here. It only makes sense that I would base my thoughts on the people that do things in the name of TSC and/or post on the forums. That said, I will clarify things, as you're right about my claims being inaccurate as written.

My claims hold for the vocal minority who bring drama to the forum or who do things off TSC in TSC's name. The rest of the community almost never speaks on TSC, neither in the forum nor on IRC, or has since distanced itself from it.

I would never make such a claim about the community lightly, Zeupar, as I still have much respect for this site. I didn't decide to make that post just because I thought I could slander people on the way out. The fact of the matter is that I left my position because I have this perception, and I think it's in your best interest to look at why I have that perception instead of assuming I just didn't force the super quiet people to remind me of their presence. If there is a vocal group of more pleasant people who act in TSC IRC, the forums, or other TSC-related groups instead of in private, please direct me to that group. I truly would like to meet these people. I know there are individuals in the groups I did decry that are not as bad as the whole, but I suspect those people realize I am addressing the whole and not every individual part.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: tripl3ag3nt on May 01, 2015, 03:38:09 PM
Ok so I've never made a forum post and I feel like this would be a good time to.

I joined TSC in September of 2014 (wish I could've been around in the glory days yadda yadda yadda) and I feel like as a new guy I could maybe provide some helpful insight. (Or maybe not and I'm just full of shit, who knows)

So anyway, I had been part of the Paper Mario community for a little while back when I ran Any% in February of 2014 and I noticed in August of 2014 that there was absolutely no community for S06--a game I was interested in getting into. There was no place where people that ran the game could all hang out, chat, get to know each other, discuss strats etc. So in October I took the time to scour the interwebs to find every 06 player I could, PM all of them on twitch or tweet at them asking for their skypes so we could make a skype group. We started with a humble gathering of 6 people.

That was 6 months ago

Since then our skype group has flourished into a group of 20+ people that have a passion for the game, we constantly motivate each other to improve our times and it has gotten a ton of older runners to start playing again and inspired new runners to pick up the game. Hell, it has helped me tremendously in getting motivation to improve my IL stats in the game here on TSC and my SS runs. I have really gotten to know good friends like Focus, Yish, DsS, Tony, Bigness, Dax, Markus, Brenz, masta, Daniel, Ouro, R2, Paulie and together we have built the 06 community from scratch.

Focus already mentioned that 06 has been the most active on the site its ever been since about 2007, and I think I can trace that back to our skype group. Every time someone breaks a record people get hyped up and congratulate him, profusely spamming the group with emotes and such. Every time someone streams 06, all you have to do is post the link to their stream in the skype group and the community comes out in full force to support him. Every time someone asks a question about what story to run first, people fight over their favorite characters and stories be it sonic silver or shadow because they're so eager to welcome new people. THIS is the type of community that makes a game popular and promotes activity, not random BS calling and drama.

The reason I say this is not to brag about 06 (even though 06 is awesome :D) or to put down other games or anything or anyone specifically, I just think that from a purely community standpoint, this is what we need to work towards for every sonic game on TSC. We need to have a passion for running sonic, we need to be open and nice and welcoming, we need to have a place where people can put their streams so the TSC community can come out and show support, we need to have people fighting over which game a new player should run. Heck, we should have a way for people who are new to introduce themselves to the rest of the community. And in general, we should be more positive. This type of drama i think should be dealt with privately on skype or something unless its REALLY necessary for every single person on the site to see it (thats just my opinion idk take it or leave it).

I know I have no business sticking my nose into this post where it doesn't belong but I guess I did it anyway :P.

Thorn and Parax, I wish I had the chance to get to know the two of you better before your departure, I hope you had a ton of good times on the site that will last you a lifetime and best wishes in all of your future endeavors!

~Liam (tripl3ag3nt)

P.S. Sorry in advance if I directly or indirectly hurt someone's feelings with this, I just felt like sharing my own naive opinion from the perspective of a guy who is still one of the newest members


Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 01, 2015, 05:30:58 PM
If you mean me, I'm not an admin; I can shitpost as much as I like.
Last I looked you were one, keyword being were, so I can see why you were taken out of admin status.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Ben on May 01, 2015, 05:42:00 PM
What happened to the quirky but friendly site that I joined in 2005?

Bring back Rolken & flyby. :(
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 01, 2015, 05:46:05 PM
If you mean me, I'm not an admin; I can shitpost as much as I like.
Last I looked you were one, keyword being were, so I can see why you were taken out of admin status.

Nope, I was never an admin.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 01, 2015, 06:36:49 PM
^ Just for the record, the status he had is a token position if anything, as it has no actual power besides editing posts. Admins on TSC are in red username-wise on the forums (and dark red for ex-admins).
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 02, 2015, 12:04:27 AM
back on topic a bit.. the community cant really be blamed completely, at least half the fault falls on sonic team. they havent made a decent sonic game since sonic generations and sonic colors, speed runner bias aside, these are barely not shit games, these are definitetly no Sonic adventures/sonic2/sonic3 par games by far. To make matters worse, their latest greatest, sonic boom! go find the timer in that game! Sonic team literally peed on us with that. (oh and the cartoon sucks too imo)

We actually have ppl in this thread that think Sonic 06 was a great peak in competition. which is the equivalent of saying sonic 1 gba is one of the cornerstones of tsc. It's not their fault though! sonic 06 came out in 2006! that is going on 9 years ago (yah that long lol)! that game is shit, but thats what they were born into, and think they found some niche fanbase with this site.

the community is only dieing because sonic team has put us in struggle mode for years, giving us games that critics give 5/10, 3/10, 2/10, mostly rightfully so!!! and we just put on a fake smile and play it (personally sonic team broke the last straw with me on sonic and the lost worlds, I went berserk). we have a game on the site that has only 3 players, and is almost 5 years old, why? because its shit.

that all being said though, im still willing to hang out for forever and help this place out the best I can. besides, there is a lot of exclusive records only on this site. so its nearly impossible to kill tsc no matter how much it dies.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: kirbymastah on May 02, 2015, 02:48:03 AM
I don't think it's a great idea to start a "this sonic game is good/bad" argument in this thread, and blame it on that... <_<
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: SpinDashMaster on May 02, 2015, 11:24:21 AM
You know something, I think I've finally lost my give-a-damn for this place.

The SDM of 2014 and prior would have copy-pasted and taken shots at all of you for the drama you made, then retreat for a few days and do it again.

I don't even care enough to do that. I think I'm one of the lucky few who actually has better things to do.

Here's to not giving a shit, Thorn!

/me raise glass
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Token on May 02, 2015, 11:49:27 AM
After much thought, I've decided to pass the torch of Head Admin on to the next person. I've been sliding out of touch with the speedrunning community as of late and haven't had the motivation to work with the site. I also don't have the knowledge of all 52 games and two DLC expansions on the site that I need to in order to separate valid BS calls from invalid ones nor do I have the power to fix some issues on the site. I don't get to see any of the social scene on TSC anymore, as it's moved off-site into smaller pockets in which I don't get involved unless called for. When I do get called for, it's typically not for good things; for example, I've recently watched old friends go at each other's throats over events tied to the site. All of this has been a bit much to deal with (and frankly makes me come off more than a bit whiny when all I experience is the negatives), so I think it's time that I give my title to people more willing to invest time into the site with a positive attitude.

As GerbilSoft currently has the most power on the site, he will carry the Head Admin title from here forward.

Thank you to everybody who's been pleasant and helpful during my time heading the site.

Good luck to you and your future endeavors.

back on topic a bit.. the community cant really be blamed completely, at least half the fault falls on sonic team. they havent made a decent sonic game since sonic generations and sonic colors, speed runner bias aside, these are barely not shit games, these are definitetly no Sonic adventures/sonic2/sonic3 par games by far. To make matters worse, their latest greatest, sonic boom! go find the timer in that game! Sonic team literally peed on us with that. (oh and the cartoon sucks too imo)

We actually have ppl in this thread that think Sonic 06 was a great peak in competition. which is the equivalent of saying sonic 1 gba is one of the cornerstones of tsc. It's not their fault though! sonic 06 came out in 2006! that is going on 9 years ago (yah that long lol)! that game is shit, but thats what they were born into, and think they found some niche fanbase with this site.

the community is only dieing because sonic team has put us in struggle mode for years, giving us games that critics give 5/10, 3/10, 2/10, mostly rightfully so!!! and we just put on a fake smile and play it (personally sonic team broke the last straw with me on sonic and the lost worlds, I went berserk). we have a game on the site that has only 3 players, and is almost 5 years old, why? because its shit.

that all being said though, im still willing to hang out for forever and help this place out the best I can. besides, there is a lot of exclusive records only on this site. so its nearly impossible to kill tsc no matter how much it dies.

You wanting to become admin was pretty lol in itself but this post takes it to a whole new level. I'm just curious of why you thought it was a good idea to bash Sonic 06. Yeah, the game is bad IMO (I don't speak for others) but the reasons you gave were LOLcoasters. Maybe people run the game because...I don't know...they like it.

Just because a game is bad doesn't mean people can't still enjoy running it.

My actual opinion:

I feel that someone of new blood should take over the site. Passing the torch off to other old admins who aren't really active much doesn't improve the situation much. If the site is to improve it's situation, pass the torch on to someone who is not only very active on the site, but has a good head on their shoulders and can make rational decisions without any bias or letting feelings take control. I don't think that the site needs to start from scratch or that we necessarily need someone from the community to update the site. It could be outsourced and I actually know a few people who could actually do it depending on what EXACTLY needs to be done to get the site up to speed.

As for proof, video proof AND photo proof (optional)should be the new standard. It'll still be possible to fake times but it'll be much easier to call out BS if the site is to go this route. The honor system at this point (justified back in 2003 due to technology limitations) is no longer a reliable system due to the overabundance of cheating that has gone on during the years.

As for RN, that doesn't need moderation nor any TSC affiliation to run them every week as it just requires consistent people. If a group is dedicated to running a game every week (i.e Ninja Gaiden Saturdays), then it should be fine.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 02, 2015, 04:52:03 PM
Here's to not giving a shit, Thorn!

/me raise glass

http://i.imgur.com/TMSafUJ.jpg

well screw it then. I rather allocate all my resources atm to anti-emulator/pro-proof efforts. Lets kick the can of big problems down the road, chalk thorn and parax up as a loss (though I'd rather they stay), and go from there.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 02, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
I don't think it's a great idea to start a "this sonic game is good/bad" argument in this thread, and blame it on that... <_<

Agreed. From what I'm reading, S&A is purposefully trying to start the drama I stated we should avoid. He's bringing up topics that have been known to cause a lot of debate or drama on both the site and the fan base in general. He's not even trying to hide the fact he's doing it. It's blatant.

There's no reason to start up another "emulator issues" topic and have that same shit go down again. It really ruins the integrity of the site, causes chaos where there doesn't need to be any and makes people leave TSC because of it. Just keep what peace TSC has left intact.

Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 02, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
gosh darnit, focusSight I can't get anything past you! you are so smart! smarter than everyone else here to see right through me, RGHH! I want to destroy the site I compete on sooo badly! *awards top snowflake award of the year*

Seriously though, you live in the past, that crap was a decade ago, stop stalking me. you comment on every post I make, and try to make every topic about me, everywhere, you're a creppy kid, and you give me a taste of the "community" thorn describes. the only reason im responding to you, is because you targeted me in this thread alone 3 times. shoooo~ 

Personally I see this as a mourning time in tsc history on par with rolken leaving (which you werent even born yet), and it needs to be respected, dealt with, and then we need to move forward.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: PsyMar on May 02, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Rolken left?

EDIT: to be clear, I really was completely unaware that Rolken had left.  This sucks.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 02, 2015, 11:57:19 PM
Seriously though, you live in the past, that crap was a decade ago, stop stalking me. you comment on every post I make, and try to make every topic about me, everywhere, you're a creppy kid, and you give me a taste of the "community" thorn describes. the only reason im responding to you, is because you targeted me in this thread alone 3 times. shoooo~ 

Personally I see this as a mourning time in tsc history on par with rolken leaving (which you werent even born yet), and it needs to be respected, dealt with, and then we need to move forward.

Yes, I am the creppiest kid around.

Seriously though. I see your points, just present them without trying to start an argument. That's all I'm saying. The reason I'm "targeting" you is because I've seen on these forums arguments started because of asserting a specific point until it gets out of hand and the forums become a war zone. Don't let it get to that. If you think I'm talking about your behaviour in the past, I'm not. I see you trying to bring up points that really aren't necessary to bring up at this point in time. I have nothing against you from what you've done. I wasn't on the site when you were most active. I'm also not saying that you are trying to destroy the site. Your points are valid, just I'm worried they might cause more argument and debate, which from previous similar discussions, has let to unnecessary and unneeded drama and anger. I agree: Emulators should be sorted out to allow complete fairness on the site. I do not believe that it is necessary to talk about at the very moment, however.

I'm not really even part of TSC's community that actively. I apologize if I have made you feel bad or made you feel like I was trying to impede your points. I was just trying to stop the drama that engulfs the site from happening again.

Personally, I believe the site deserves an update. It's been about 4 years since the last update (according to dates at the bottom of the site). One of the things that I really am quite annoyed about is the inability to easily submit on the chart page itself or edit comments/times easily. Being used to CS, the ability to submit from the chart page itself, being able to see immediate result and being able to edit your comment to add something like proof is a very well thought out system. Having to go to the same screen with all times/scores/rings/whathaveyou and then waiting for the actual submission to go through is an annoyance. I agree (mostly) with Hyper. Having to start from scratch would be extremely hard for all the staff on the site, and I think that's why we're unlikely to even have an update soon.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Strong Bad on May 03, 2015, 06:08:38 AM
Randomly decided to check TSC for Chemical Plant Zone vids and stumbled upon this. I read bits and pieces of this thread, some sad stuff to read but I think most of it is true. :/ TSC has been dying for a while now and Parax explained a lot of the reasons why. I just never really thought people would "accept" that in a formal sense, and so many prominent members at that.
Thanks to everything the ex-Admins have done for TSC in the past, I too am overall glad I found this site. Met some cool people and tried out some things I would later decide I didn't want to pursue. I wish I was closer to a few people here, but I guess that's probably my fault.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: flying fox on May 03, 2015, 01:48:57 PM
After reading these posts about either letting the site die or changing it, I would like to say something that I probably should have mentioned earlier when I became admin. The reason I wanted to become an admin on this site was because I wanted to help out more and hopefully make some changes to the site. This came from people mentioning about the decline in the site's activity and wanted something done about it on a topic that was made some time ago. That is why not long after that I started up Race Nights about 3 years ago and it did bring in some new members who started competing on the site. Then I became a ban hammer and started on sorting out the videos on TSC.

Now that I became a full admin not long ago, I would like to discuss with Zeupar and Gerbil at some point, to see if the site should/can be changed in some way or not. I had some things that I thought could be added to the site to maybe update it a little.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: InferSaime on May 03, 2015, 02:58:45 PM
Before I start I'd like to wish Thorn and Parax good luck with their future endeavors.

Personally I think it might be better to let the site die. With the current state of how easy it is to look for records, stats, other runners, etc on YT, Twitch, speedrun.com hell even twitter and other social media I don't think there is much need for TSC to be around. However the primarly reason I say this is that this site is outdated as hell and I do not have much faith in gerbil to update this site. With an outdated site there isn't much you can do. And that admins can't do that much without the irc or gerbil, well that's just disappointing.
Another option would be updating the site but that would require a lot of work. And personally I don't think it's worth the trouble for anyone to do that. After all TSC is after its prime and lasted for over 10 years (which is pretty damn long). But I guess it'd be all up to gerbil or for another developer to show up.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: flying fox on May 03, 2015, 03:05:03 PM
I understand what you guys are saying which is why I said in my post 'if the site should/can be changed in some way or not.' It does look very much it is too late but at least this way I can say I tried :(
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 03, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
that would be nice if you could get something done FF, on the other hand It's probably unrealistic to ask gerbilsoft to make big changes to the site, at least without paying him. let alone it takes a lot of work for just one person.

two small ideas I have, that I believe ... might be easy for gerbil to do is add a twitter feed of the members to the right of the site. I personally don't use the twitter, but I know its a pretty big deal for a lot of people here, it would keep everyone up to date of what all the members are up to and probably help keep the community stay closer

Another important thing is streaming, I've seen many other sites do it, have a page dedicated streaming, the page would just keep track if a member is online streaming or not, providing an easy one click way to the members stream, via a link you provide in your personal accounts settings.

Im sure everyone has a lot of big ideas, but unless we are going to pay the man, I dont know why he would want to do it?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: flying fox on May 03, 2015, 03:59:04 PM
Funnily enough one of the things I was thinking about TSC is that I'm pretty sure we don't have a link to our twitch team on the site. This could go under Media on the menu with a link to this. (http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc) We also have a twitter account and a youtube channel (which I have no idea when it was last used). Again this could go under Media.

Also I do understand what Hyper said about the site needing massive changes and unfortunately I can't do that, but I haven't really thought that far ahead and only thought of small things that could be done.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 03, 2015, 05:45:19 PM
two small ideas I have, that I believe ... might be easy for gerbil to do is add a twitter feed of the members to the right of the site. I personally don't use the twitter, but I know its a pretty big deal for a lot of people here, it would keep everyone up to date of what all the members are up to and probably help keep the community stay closer

Another important thing is streaming, I've seen many other sites do it, have a page dedicated streaming, the page would just keep track if a member is online streaming or not, providing an easy one click way to the members stream, via a link you provide in your personal accounts settings.

These are great ideas. It would really help push the social aspect of TSC a bit more than it currently is. However, it's all up to really GerbilSoft to add it. I believe a while back, Zeupar asked if STL (one of the main developers on CS) could have a look at TSC's database/code (iirc). He hasn't been allowed any access to the code so far, but I know he could definitely help the site (if he is willing to do so). I'd need Zeupar to verify if what I'm saying is indeed correct though.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Pokemonmaster888 on May 03, 2015, 05:53:25 PM
All right, I wanted to post my thoughts on this whole subject earlier but felt I was a bit too late once some emotional posts started to occur. At the request of Zeupar and some rethinking on my part, I felt that it is necessary to get my opinions down. Firstly I want to wish Thorn and Paraxade well, as they obviously have decided that it is time for them move on as their priorities have shifted. Good luck, and have fun with your current projects. I really appreciated the efforts you two took to help the site and get things done.

Now, I've been a member of TSC for just about 8 years. Not the longest compared to when I could have joined and to other older members, but pretty long. I've seen members come and go, great battles in many games between myself and other competitors, and impressive acts of skill in video games in general. I was very active in the TSC IRC channel from 2007-2010 and such great times were had there from the constant general talk, to competing, to organizing Super Smash Bros. Brawl matches; it was a great community. Now, I took a leave for about 3 and a half years from competing and online communities in general, so I missed a lot of the decline of the older member activity and growth of the newer communities that occurred in 2011-2013. However, my research showed that TSC was great and active, although the community started to shift in behavior and style, which is okay.

Fast forward until now, and I see a site that is dying in certain parts, but not the whole. I know the site is outdated and needs an active developer as well as many new features, but I believe the driving spirit is still there. The individual communities that the site has broken into still compete, drive competition, and that ends up on the site in the form of videos, guides, and submissions. I may be biased since I'm part of the Sonic Heroes community which is doing well in terms of activity, but I see the Sonic 06 community thriving as well and other communities doing well. If you look at the site, we still get submissions in each day, which is great. I know the community has split and many people have said they are leaving (which is sad) but that is life. People move on, and decide to do other things. Take DsS's post for example: He is a great person who gave his heart to Sonic gaming and competing for many years and just has decided it's time for him to move on. It's the way of life, in a way a circle of life. I thought I was done with competitive gaming (for many reasons) back when I took my leave in 2010, and I did so for over 3 years. However, the spirit and fire that was inside me never died, and I ended up returning to the scene and communities, which I felt was a great choice I made. You never know, people that leave may be back someday, as interests change and often return to what they used to be, and with that comes new perspective. You just never know, as you can find yourself stopping activities you thought you never would abandon, and vice versa.

Now, obviously the site is in need of a lot of help, and the parts of the community that are leaving only add to that issue. I do agree that the past history of the site needs to be kept preserved, but not at the expense of future progress. If the site can be made better, do it. Otherwise I think it is a bad choice if you want the site to die or keep declining for histories' sake. Things change and sites evolve; I'm pretty sure that people would rather take the site evolving, getting better and progressing rather than dying. There is still a market in this day and age for video game competition sites, and I wholeheartedly want to see TSC keep going and become better. I still see new members coming in, and although old ones are leaving (which is entirely their decision, they choose what they want to do with their lives), there can still be hope for the site. I do not know how much longer the current activity state of TSC will keep going on, but there is no doubt that upgrading the site will bring in new competitors and community members in general. The site is not "dead" yet, but it is hard to tell when exactly it will die, if it does at all. I don't know if the site needs a reboot, upgrade or complete restructure. I do know though that I will be with TSC for as long as I can.

TSC is an incredible website that has given me access to meeting many great players and people over the years, and I won't leave the site after what I have experienced. What good will it do for me to leave a site that still has competition, good people and good times to still be had? Obviously that may not be the case now for other players, but for me, I'll be here and keep competing. Whether the site doesn't get any help and dies someday or gets the upgrades it needs and flourishes once more, I'll be here competing as it's fun, I learn more things, and there is no better database/website for the highest-level Sonic gaming. I don't think TSC should be chasing its past and trying to become what it once was in terms of "prime level style/activity"; embrace the fact that the site's largest growth period probably is over, and focus on the future. Acceptance of that will help build direction and focus for TSC's next steps. In addition, that mindset/outcome may come with activity comparable to its prime, but that is hard to say.

I'm willing to help the site in any way I can, and I don't see a reason to stop competing here at this time. I really hope that the people that can make a difference in the Administration of this site do so, and continue to do so. Good luck to all of the current Administrators, especially FlyingFox, Zeupar and GerbilSoft to keep on managing TSC, as those three are the most active now that I can see from this viewpoint.

All in all, TSC is place that I think can still be viable in the present day, and it really all comes down to the community and players involved. If there is no interest anymore, the site dies. If even a couple people want to still compete and see what this site has amassed over its 12 year history, then it's a win for TSC. You never know who will come around one day and change things. Remember, your past can be both beneficial and detrimental. Do not fear over using the past as a positive/driving factor, but know how to utilize that correctly. I wish all players luck that are leaving or have left, and remember, you may be surprised about what you decide upon in the future.

I'm glad to still be a part of TSC, and I know a bunch of other people are too. I know this was a long post so I may have forgotten something, but I felt I made myself clear about my own thoughts. A possible expansion post might be necessary if I feel the need to write something else. :P
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Token on May 03, 2015, 06:30:41 PM
Before I start I'd like to wish Thorn and Parax good luck with their future endeavors.

Personally I think it might be better to let the site die. With the current state of how easy it is to look for records, stats, other runners, etc on YT, Twitch, speedrun.com hell even twitter and other social media I don't think there is much need for TSC to be around. However the primarly reason I say this is that this site is outdated as hell and I do not have much faith in gerbil to update this site. With an outdated site there isn't much you can do. And that admins can't do that much without the irc or gerbil, well that's just disappointing.
Another option would be updating the site but that would require a lot of work. And personally I don't think it's worth the trouble for anyone to do that. After all TSC is after its prime and lasted for over 10 years (which is pretty damn long). But I guess it'd be all up to gerbil or for another developer to show up.

Maybe it might be a lot of work...but can't we just import all of the il's for the games over to speedrun.com? Most of the Sonic games are there and adding IL's shouldn't be that hard outside of it being time consuming (I'm a mod of a few games over there). If we're to let the site die, I think this would be the best option. That way, all of the IL's are preserved, won't have to go through the effort of updating a site that may all be for nothing, and people can still compete.

This is just my two cents on that matter.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 04, 2015, 04:51:03 AM
Maybe it might be a lot of work...but can't we just import all of the il's for the games over to speedrun.com? Most of the Sonic games are there and adding IL's shouldn't be that hard outside of it being time consuming (I'm a mod of a few games over there). If we're to let the site die, I think this would be the best option. That way, all of the IL's are preserved, won't have to go through the effort of updating a site that may all be for nothing, and people can still compete.

The way I think about speedrun.com is that it's for RTA runs, not ILs. I don't think that's where these types of charts should go.

It's not like TSC's servers are going to implode because Parax and Thorn left. Changes like this are (relatively) common and shouldn't cause the entire site to crumble to the ground. People get older and leave. They grow out of who they used to be. They no longer are the same person when they started in the position. Change happens. It's up to us to adapt to it, live through it and go with it. We shouldn't give in and say that the site is dead because the main admin has left us. Power has changed hands multiple times on this site. There's no reason to go so worked up about this.

Personally I think it might be better to let the site die. With the current state of how easy it is to look for records, stats, other runners, etc on YT, Twitch, speedrun.com hell even twitter and other social media I don't think there is much need for TSC to be around. However the primarly reason I say this is that this site is outdated as hell and I do not have much faith in gerbil to update this site. With an outdated site there isn't much you can do. And that admins can't do that much without the irc or gerbil, well that's just disappointing.
Another option would be updating the site but that would require a lot of work. And personally I don't think it's worth the trouble for anyone to do that. After all TSC is after its prime and lasted for over 10 years (which is pretty damn long). But I guess it'd be all up to gerbil or for another developer to show up.

Aw. You've turned into a true CyberScoreian. Remember when you used to hate CS? :P

While I do not think that the site should die (as it holds a lot more records and details of competition in various Sonic games than any other site I know of), it is in desperate need of an update (as I've stated before). I won't repeat what I said there but I believe it still stands true. If in fact, for no reason whatsoever, the site dies tomorrow, so be it. I don't think it's justified if it's because of possibly being understaffed or a lack of trying. The staff that is left on the site can handle the issues TSC occasionally has popping up. (Though, not something on the scale of the emulator issues topic). I'd say look for some potential admins who can take the place of someone like Parax or Thorn (though we're unlikely to find candidates as good or better than them) that might want to help the site.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Token on May 04, 2015, 07:55:11 AM
Maybe it might be a lot of work...but can't we just import all of the il's for the games over to speedrun.com? Most of the Sonic games are there and adding IL's shouldn't be that hard outside of it being time consuming (I'm a mod of a few games over there). If we're to let the site die, I think this would be the best option. That way, all of the IL's are preserved, won't have to go through the effort of updating a site that may all be for nothing, and people can still compete.

The way I think about speedrun.com is that it's for RTA runs, not ILs. I don't think that's where these types of charts should go.

It's not like TSC's servers are going to implode because Parax and Thorn left. Changes like this are (relatively) common and shouldn't cause the entire site to crumble to the ground. People get older and leave. They grow out of who they used to be. They no longer are the same person when they started in the position. Change happens. It's up to us to adapt to it, live through it and go with it. We shouldn't give in and say that the site is dead because the main admin has left us. Power has changed hands multiple times on this site. There's no reason to go so worked up about this.

No one said the site was going to explode or anything but given the current situation that we're in (the site need a huge update badly, site is missing admins, the head admin hasn't decided to pass the site on yet, people are starting to not care about losing championships, and the site is in a decline), uploading everything to speedrun makes sense. We don't have to leave TSC but if something was to happen to it, we would at least have everything there. Plus, since everything there requires a verification through the active mods, it'll be a lot easier to catch cheating.

In regards of getting worked up, no one is getting worked up. You are trying to be as optimistic as possible in a situation that's pretty bleak that we can't directly influence.

- A few of the long time admins have left due to RL and just moving on from Sonic games leaving only Momma Blimp, Zeupar, and Gerbil (probably butchered this) unless I'm missing someone else
- Sonic AD, The head admin, for some reason still hasn't passed on the keys to the site even though he hasn't really been active (if at all) for quite a few years now.
- The site needs a huge update as, TBH, it looks like shit now.
- The person who can update isn't really active as much and if he does update, it may be for nothing as there are other sites that does the same thing TSC does but also host other games
- The community has become toxic towards each other (myself included)to the point that people shit on other games or other people for no justifiable reason, as we've seen in this post.
- The only people I feel is capable to be come the new age admins for the site, if it's to be kept going, is people I don't think the admins want to pass the torch to or they don't want it.
- The site is in a decline

Pretty bleak, don'tcha think?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: SB737 on May 04, 2015, 08:12:44 AM
I'd just like to say thanks to Thorn for all the work you've done, you've been a very good admin, and whilst it's a shame to see you go, I can understand your reasoning.
I think that TSC needs an active coder, as I always have, but from what I can see, that may not be possible right now.
The community of speerunning does seem to have shifted much more to full game speed runs, rather than ILs, and RAs/SAs, which is perhaps why people would go to other sites such as SDA and SRL. I thought I'd always be a big competitor on TSC, but I've also moved onto other games and joined other communities (Not saying I've left this community, I'm just a bit less active).
Competition on TSC has been steady for some time now, and I reckon it will stay that way, unless Sega can make a decent game for once, then maybe competition will rise up a bit, like it did for Generations, fingers crossed for Sonic's 25th anniversary in a year or so :P
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 05, 2015, 06:46:05 AM
In regards of getting worked up, no one is getting worked up. You are trying to be as optimistic as possible in a situation that's pretty bleak that we can't directly influence.

- A few of the long time admins have left due to RL and just moving on from Sonic games leaving only Momma Blimp, Zeupar, and Gerbil (probably butchered this) unless I'm missing someone else
- Sonic AD, The head admin, for some reason still hasn't passed on the keys to the site even though he hasn't really been active (if at all) for quite a few years now.
- The site needs a huge update as, TBH, it looks like shit now.
- The person who can update isn't really active as much and if he does update, it may be for nothing as there are other sites that does the same thing TSC does but also host other games
- The community has become toxic towards each other (myself included)to the point that people shit on other games or other people for no justifiable reason, as we've seen in this post.
- The only people I feel is capable to be come the new age admins for the site, if it's to be kept going, is people I don't think the admins want to pass the torch to or they don't want it.
- The site is in a decline

Pretty bleak, don'tcha think?

Eh. I think we're both taking extremes here. I mean, at the least the site functions (poorly, mind you). I don't the site should just go away. If it's lasted this long, it can last a little while longer. CS was in a similar situation from 2009-2010. To quote the site history page on CS:

"Unfortunately though, MikkyX started to become slower when it came to coding CS4, and as a result the project was put on a halt. Because the main programmer and head admin was missing from Cyberscore, the moderators also became less and less active over the days.

It was at its worst late 2009 / early 2010, when almost none of the moderators regularly visited the site anymore. And then the unthinkable happened…

In April 2010, MikkyX threatened to pull the plug. While the main site still had a steady amount of submissions per day, the staff members were nowhere to be seen and the forum had more spambots than it had activity. And MikkyX did not want to pay the server costs if this was what was going on with the site.

When he announced this on the forum though, the community expressed their concern and their will to keep CS up and running. Some people even expressed interest in hosting the site themselves, and eventually it was placed into the hands of TheBrain.

Over the next few days, TheBrain found a suitable place to host the site and started the forum from scratch to mark this new era in Cyberscore’s history."

A similar bleak situation, if not worse than what TSC is currently in, happened to CS. Now, CS has a very active staff. The amount of proof mods, game mods, global mods, and admins is larger than ever before. I believe that, with a little bit of time and maybe even some luck, the same will happen to TSC. I'd love to help by being a staff member, as I have donated a lot of my time to CS and I would love to help TSC, but as a previously banned member twice, I can't really help. I'll just hope for the best, but if the site has to come to a close quite a bit soon, then so be it. It was a good run, guys. A good run indeed.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Werey on May 05, 2015, 02:15:52 PM
Good luck to Thorn and Paraxade. Also Focus can you actually write a post in this topic without the words Cyberscore or CS? Damn son
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Ring Rush on May 05, 2015, 02:50:26 PM
TSC doesn't need a specialized community to be worth existing. It is just a fun place to track stats because of interesting motivators like the color system, sitewide/game points, and an unrivaled depth of historical times to continually climb the ranks. Speedrun.com is just a personality-less list of times, and if you want to speed up the death of IL competition switching over is one surefire way to do it.

I've enjoyed TSC for years now without considering myself a member of the community...that aspect just isn't needed. As long as there is interest in comparing times there is a niche for TSC (there are still like 500 stats a week which is a ton). I don't normally post on the forum, but I am genuinely upset that people are talking about taking the site down just because their friends are leaving. Make friends elsewhere, post times here...don't drag a great thing down just because you want to gloom and doom about how the "glory days" are gone.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Etch on May 05, 2015, 04:54:50 PM
Proof was mentioned somewhere, that's a problem everywhere.

It's always a feather in your cap when you see banned players make their home elsewhere as they are degrading the value of other sites instead.  Validity outweighs activity.  We can always do more to showcase our talent but the noise of the crowd shouldn't dictate how everything should be gone about.  If we didn't enjoy submitting thousands of stats, there wouldn't be a TSC.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: SqwareEcks on May 05, 2015, 08:09:28 PM
There isn't much I could say that hasn't been said by others already, but I generally agree with Ring Rush. For me this is just a fun place to see how I compare to others at playing Sonic games and watch videos from people who are way better at them than me, and any social interaction on the forums is just icing on the cake, and I think it would be a shame for the site to get completely blammed just because the community aspect of it isn't as strong as it used to be. My thanks to Thorn and Paraxade for their hard work on behalf of the site and best of luck to them.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Vallkyr on May 05, 2015, 10:56:40 PM
I'm also with RingRush here. I joined the site pretty late so the community was already "dead", yet the stats are what's keeping me coming back here. While I mostly care about times, it is nice to be a high ranking in the "overall" chart. So I've been doing some ring and score attacks here and there, and to some extent enjoyed them, which I never expected.

The colour system is definetly nice. It's an easy way to tell which of your stats might not quite be up to par, or which ones stand out as amazing (I still have that 1 orange time in Unleashed that's taunting me... need to make it all red again), and I have yet to see that on any other stat site. Could just go for a "top 10" or whatever, but that's not affected by the amount of players on the chart, so it's not quite as significant.

I see no reason to kill off the site until there's actually nobody left who cares about the stats
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 06, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
TSC doesn't need a specialized community to be worth existing. It is just a fun place to track stats because of interesting motivators like the color system, sitewide/game points, and an unrivaled depth of historical times to continually climb the ranks. Speedrun.com is just a personality-less list of times, and if you want to speed up the death of IL competition switching over is one surefire way to do it.
I agree with this 100%, the only reason I even come back is to see what's new in the competitive Sonic gaming community as far as records go, and every now & then set a few of my own. (mostly Sonic Rush RA, working on getting TSCs leadership in rings for that game.) I don't come back to spend time with friends on the forum, (lol I have none, so yeah) I come back to see what new records have been set & find out about new leaders & champions.

Also, congrats on getting your 0-pt leadership on SSR back again Ring Rush, that's no easy task.

One other thing I'll say, I don't like to think ILs are dead cuz there are still people that do ILs, that's all I do, because I don't have the capability of doing a full game speed run, and I like to think about what's possible in a single level, not how quickly I can beat an entire game. I also like the color ranking system with the leaderboards, it really gives off that heir of accomplishment. It makes TSC stand out among other competition sites that just have leaderboards & stats.

This is just a thought, but why don't we make a new chart for each game for full-game speed runs, since from what I understand, that's where Sonic speed running is headed. Is that asking too much?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 16, 2015, 10:16:25 AM
TSC is, first and foremost, a site that hosts charts and forums. It also has an IRC channel.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
We DO, however, need a community, especially in a time like this.

That's why you abandon the "community" for not receiving a petty title, instead of trying to keep Race Nights alive;
One of the biggest community activities TSC had to offer, I might add.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
We need people that give a damn to fix the site.

We talked about this before. If anything, we need to give Gerbil and the others in power an incentive to fix the site for us, nobody else has the power to. Which means the only thing you could do is maybe organize a flash mob and force Gerbil to fix shit? Stir up a ruckus again and destroy the site before it gets fixed again?

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
It's sub 200 last I checked, and the average has been 200-300 for some time, barring temporary factors. I don't think that's much at all; we pulled at least double that years ago, and considering I also tend to see the same faces on new stats most of the time, it's pretty damn bleak.

My first point: This is a site for leaderboards. The site has a ton of people that dont even talk on TSC itself, most people just submit stats and maybe glance at the forums. The forums most of the time maybe have 20-30 different people posting in a month; Most likely not at the same time, either. There's just no basic community in the first place, so how would you magically make one appear? TSC, especially after the whole Race Nights shenanigans, is even more split than before. There's more activity in those split groups than there is on TSC itself.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
Consider this a call out to every single competitor out there. If you still give a damn, then don't make excuses all day and act like it. I don't care if you're dying tomorrow; if you really care enough, you'll make time and show it. Show the admins you still care and maybe they'll start caring more too.

You do not need excuses to not speedrun. How about you stop telling us to care about TSC, after you abandoned pretty much every responsibility you had on here, not showing up for 4 of the games you had planned for the "failure" of a marathon, cheating/bullshitting the first time you got here, etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 16, 2015, 10:24:25 AM
Ugh, let the flame war begin. We're right back to where we started, bickering at each other & getting nothing done.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 16, 2015, 10:51:25 AM
The whole point is WE can not get ANYTHING done unless we have the support of the higher ups; It's that simple. That's the whole point i've been trying to make this entire time. Especially now with all the power basically centered around GerbilSoft, unless the TSC staff gets more people involved with the drive and the skills to change the site, it will just not happen.

On top of that, we shouldn't even be posting in this thread anymore. If you so desperately want to improve TSC, make a new thread that doesn't keep dragging Thorn's resignation into the dirt. I, for one, don't care if you keep using this thread, but it's far and beyond gone past just being about the administrator title change.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 16, 2015, 05:34:35 PM
You should probably put a tl;dr on your wall of texts, people might actually read them if you do
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 16, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
Ah, allow me then.

"tl;dr wah wah wah I have complaints to make about a site that a week ago I said was dying and that I was leaving."
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 16, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
It amused me last time that you responded a solid 2-3 times to my posts before you realised I was never going to post anything that wasn't designed to bait you into responding and wasting your time
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 16, 2015, 05:50:46 PM
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 16, 2015, 06:29:49 PM
Sorry S&A my new PC doesn't have flash installed on it
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 16, 2015, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: Hypersonic7701
As I have said before, the title very well could have had additional meaning, such as designated, reliable racers, or if the races were hosted here instead of on SRL, where some of our rules could be better enforced, and then moderation would have some actual meaning.

Instead, it never meant much, but it did give enough of a reason to encourage people to race, to be there as often as I possibly could, basically to give a shit.

So the title is meaningless, but still makes you give a shit? I think we had this one before; Maybe you should stop contradicting yourself within 2 paragraphs.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
I'm not asking for a mob, and I'm not asking for Gerbil to force anything. Only a collective effort will be inspiring enough to get the site upgrades we've been waiting for.

Then what will show the effort that you need? A lot of people submitting stats? I am just asking because, as far as I am concerned, all we need is a stable communication line to our headadmin/coder that he could always be spoken to. Maybe that's asking for too much, but if we can't even talk to the guy who is supposed to update/fix our things, the greatest effort will be made naught.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
It's the people behind the stats that have been here, past and present, that made TSC what it is today, with impacts big or small. It's all of us, a basic community of Sonic lovers that want to take Sonic gaming to a new level, a level that extends replayability, that have guided this site to this point.

You can't then tell me there's no community, because whether we admit it or not, by coming here we secretly want to connect with others that share the same interests to any extent.

I am not telling you that there's no community or whatever, but most of TSC's stats are made by people who don't even compete anymore, let alone even visit the site. There is most of the times maybe 5 or 6 people that even voice an opinion, and the rest are people that don't visit TSC for talking or hanging out with other people. That's where they go to SRL, since it's actual live competition, instead of a "Hey you beat my stat give me a week or so to beat it back" thing. You know, the place where we host the Race Nights? Do you even remember that when we actually wanted to move it back to TSC, people were afraid of losing most of their racers? Because that's why the first thing I quoted makes even less sense; since it was an option that wasn't taken by the other Race Nights participants and yours truly .
Quote from: Hypersonic7701
Sure, I'm not perfect. I never claimed to be. I've made bad decisions in the past. I've come a long way. I learned quite a bit about many of the people here, past and present. Maybe I'm not the best person to be calling out people, I'll believe that. Somebody has to, though.

I do think that you're quite full of it, mostly because you say you want a community and competition, but the last 2 times that happened you got angry at those people, banned them from your twitch streams and pretty much did a lot of other passive-aggressive things to them.
Like when Thorn got some easy points in Sonic 4 and you got all mad on stream at him and banned him, because he held the penultimate spot for another day. A single. Extra. Day. You did make up after that, but it was still pretty harsh.

Which pretty much means, you, yourself, cannot take a kick in the ass and not go off on people if it happens. So yes, I do think that you're the wrong person to call people out on that, because even the most passion you have will not help the reputation that you have gained yourself.

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
Uh, no. This topic is still very much relevant, since it concerns many of the same issues extended from Thorn's "direct post". As far as I'm concerned, this topic should not be swept under the rug, because it's still a reminder that something big happened, and because the topic is still an extension from said post

I am just saying that you should make a new topic to inspire people as you will, instead of having us just rip apart this thread in terms of what it's about. Because originally, it was supposed to be about Thorn's resignation and people saying goodbye, instead of saying "HEY YOU'RE LEAVING? GREAT, TAKE TSC's PROBLEMS WITH YOU PLEASE". This isn't supposed to be an All-You-Can-Bitch-Buffet.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 16, 2015, 10:25:18 PM
Yeah, this topic is so great because so many people have meaningful things to say.
NOT.

Troll competition is still competition; You got what you wanted, which is someone submitting stats that he didnt have before. It's not like he concealed them either, he got them fresh and steaming. And it was, DIRECT, competition in a game that you had a championship in, where he even beat one of your stats.

Same happened when he took back knuckles chaotix special, by the way, the second time you got angry at him daring to challenge your climb upwards.

Also this whole title thing is already too stupid, because you saying "oh you didnt read it correctly tehehehe" doesn't actually undo what i said.

And you have repeatedly said that titles both do not mean much, but are worth going for, which i still don't quite understand. Seeing as that, apparently, was your sole motivation of doing anything that was relevant to Race Nights.

And I'd hate to give any more direct examples of you being a jerk to people, especially to FF, but I'll say something else instead.
Remember the time when you "cleaned up" the race nights skype group? A week before you kicked some people, you acted like a complete fucking idiot together with them, saying shit like "no u" over and over and over again. Which was so annoying it led to me leaving the group, and eventually, you kicking them out of the group because of complaints, even though you joined in on it and pretty much killed all the sense in the group with the other ones. And because of your position you get to stay even though you were just as much at fault for that.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 16, 2015, 10:44:28 PM
guys! chill!... lol, in the end its just video games, stream, Skype, the stupid twitter. its all pretty meaningless. I mean its important to have strong competition, but not to go so aggressively at each others throats.

If you really hate someone on this site, do what I do, beat their records. ^^

no one here should really hate each other personally, not many people here know each other personally. irl most everyone here is pretty cool, if you get to know them. I.E. I thought/was convinced I would HATE Parax IRL, but I didn't, he was kool with me, didn't get to talk to him much but, there was a feeling of respect between us. (at least for me)

keep in mind we all share the same passion - Sonic
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 16, 2015, 11:26:39 PM
guys! chill!... lol, in the end its just video games, stream, Skype, the stupid twitter. its all pretty meaningless. I mean its important to have strong competition, but not to go so aggressively at each others throats.

If you really hate someone on this site, do what I do, beat their records. ^^

no one here should really hate each other personally, not many people here know each other personally. irl most everyone here is pretty cool, if you get to know them. I.E. I thought/was convinced I would HATE Parax IRL, but I didn't, he was kool with me, didn't get to talk to him much but, there was a feeling of respect between us. (at least for me)

keep in mind we all share the same passion - Sonic
Hey guys I think you were too busy angrily typing on your keyboards at each other to see this message. I suppose now you're gonna tell me to shut up & mind my own business, am I right, since I have nothing to do with your little flame war here?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on May 17, 2015, 12:43:37 AM
For all the talk about Race Night nonsense, it seems the arguers have forgotten that the guy who supposedly sentenced it and the site and everything else to death is no longer a TSC admin. Everybody is perfectly free to just ask the current admins to undo my decision; Race Night mods get their titles back, law and order is restored, and everything goes back to the sweet perfection it was before my meddling. That'd fix one of the points of argument, right?

I have personal beef with some other things that have been said in this topic, but I've aired more than enough dirty laundry at this point so I'll let those things stand as true even if I know or believe them to be false. Correcting them or inserting my opinion would probably just egg on more drama. I do urge readers not to take everything said in this topic at face value, though, and to remember that every poster has an agenda.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on May 17, 2015, 01:50:12 AM
^ Flying Fox is only one admin out of three. Her having an objection is not a total bar to you getting things back to how they were, since getting the other two admins to agree would cause her to be overruled. "Literally impossible" is far from the truth, so I suggest that you stop focusing on Flying Fox and start focusing on how to get what you think is best for the site. After all, I'm sure you've noticed that the cavalcade of shit posts from her boyfriend usually come after your post contains a remark at her expense or at the expense of something she's organizing, so the way to avoid them altogether would be to stop chewing her out as an individual while you're saying you want to fix a site-wide problem.

I'm suggesting the possibility because comments such as
Quote from: Hypersonic7701
Nah, look. I disagreed with the proposed "solution", because in my own view, I believed that it would not get far (how's that going, btw? no races yet? k).
are being made, so clearly the current situation is considered to be worse than the old one. Even if you think this should have been done "long ago", TSC's always been about things that should have been done long in the past—often years too late—so this seems to just be one more of those things. A month passing is not a problem.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 17, 2015, 07:00:44 AM
>implying I post for FF

Get real. I've always been mad at people myself and acted without a reason to "defend" anyone. I just find it stupid that literally no one else ever speaks up that isn't You, Thorn, or someone that wants this to end. Especially when you make large posts as if you want to publish a goddamn book.

Nobody is expecting you to make up, by the way. I would actually prefer it if you guys kept away from each other, especially since your way of getting back at her for a Race Night and other small problems is kicking her out and trying to get her admin taken away from her; I feel like you knew problems like that would arise again, seeing as she was the reason you originally quit Race Nights, right?

That means you are person everyone can rely on because you held your end of the bargain and you don't do stupid things without reason yourself, correct? Unlike the time where you did petty little things like being mad at FF for "her sake" when she submitted to ESA? Or when you disliked a bunch of her ~competition~ Sonic CD 11 youtube videos? Or the time when Bilan made a joke post and you couldn't take it and changed it to "I am retarded".

There's been a lot of stupid actions between you and FF, and I feel like if she had been any other person you wouldn't have done that and instead tried to argue about a solution instead. Like if it had been me we wouldve had a stupid lengthy discussion like this that would at some point end. Or not. And then the solution would be one of us had to go.
And in the end that decision was made by the admins.

And seeing as you want to desperately hang onto this thread, I'll just make a new one to gather whatever people think needs to be done, since i doubt they will even respond to this topic with anything that isn't "stop flinging shit around".




Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 17, 2015, 08:10:04 AM
Great, now Thorn has joined the battle… is there any point to this? Seriously why does this keep getting dragged on, so you can continue to try and prove you're right about something absolutely pointless?
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 17, 2015, 08:11:03 AM
Hyper...


Why did you get back into this...


You're eating away at your already lowered status on the site even more. Don't fuck up the last bit of good status you have on the site. Please.

I forgot that you're not an admin anymore? Not at all.

Did you forget that you're no longer a Brosideon? Do you want that status to be changed to banned? Stop before you hurt yourself again. There's no reason to get caught up in a site where there's drama on a daily basis. You'll just confuse yourself if you even bother. I don't want you to become a user in hiding for reasons of regret (almost like you're forcing yourself to go to Tony levels of offline). In all honesty, I don't want to lose you, Hyper. (Even if you do let small things get the better of yourself)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 17, 2015, 08:20:54 AM
Of course, I was highly offended by these actions, especially when Bilan posted not one, but two topics about the same nonsense, on race day.

: D
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: FocusSight64 on May 17, 2015, 08:32:44 AM
This will be my absolute final post on TSC's forums unless there is something so important that I would need to post. I'm sorry guys, but I've had enough of the constant drama that goes on in these boards. Every time I open this I regret looking at it. There's maybe a few topics from back in 2008 or something that were light-hearted and in the spirit of what I see as TSC, but there are too many topics cluttering the forums that are filled with negativity and spite. I already have enough of that in my life as is, I don't want it on a site I usually look (or rather now, looked) toward for enjoyment and happiness.

With this, I'm leaving the forums and I will not submit unless I dearly have to (aka Liam begs me to). Until these "issues" with the site are "fixed", I can't take being here and watching the site and its staff crumble in front of me. Maybe it is time to put the old dog down. It's up to the remaining members to figure this out.  I wish all the members on the site—including those who may have made mistakes during this time of utter negativity on the forums—the best with their future endeavors and for whatever the future may hold for them.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Thorn on May 17, 2015, 12:57:12 PM
Quote from: HyperSonic7701
As for what I think should happen to improve the site, I've already laid that out in numerous posts, past and present.
Like this one (https://twitter.com/HyperSonic7701/status/593856921008021505) and this one (https://twitter.com/HyperSonic7701/status/593857082828443648) and at the end of your sig in every post? For as much as you've said the contradictions in your posts have been anything but, I am legitimately scratching my head at this one.

Quote from: HyperSonic7701
Sure, she is one of three admins, and she can be overruled in the RN decision, but do you really think she's just going to accept that? Do you really think we'll just make up and it will be all CatBags and rainbows again?
No, I don't think you guys will ever make up. I think you two should ignore each other instead of constantly treating your time on the site as if you need opposition. That's why I'm telling you not to keep bringing her up.

I'm not always targeting her, but I do consider her part of the problem, and not the solution so long as she continues this charade of having people posting for her, since you more or less just admitted to that anyway.
I made a post telling you to go around her authority, which probably offends her to high heaven, and yet you think I'm posting on her behalf?



…I can't even respond properly to that without addressing you as a person instead of addressing your points. You are simply too far gone. You honestly think that the numerous posts in this topic that go against your point of view are part of some sort of Flying Fox appreciation club, that people would rig polls just to ruin *your* Race Night, that everybody is choosing to believe Flying Fox unquestioningly just to spite you… it's almost incomprehensible that you're digging your heels in deeper even as the earth crumbles beneath your feet.

I miss the dynamic we used to have. Although it occasionally went too far, I miss when we could lightly troll each other without it being treated as an offense. I miss when Race Nights weren't a huge deal and were just a bunch of people meeting to do something together. I miss us sitting together on TSC_Streams just trying to keep the channel alive post-marathon. At this point, though, you seem determined to be opposed to anybody who doesn't agree with your actions 100%, and I and others have abandoned that friendship. I truly hope that at some point you stop saying that everybody must be wrong and reflect a bit, as when so many people are disagreeing, perhaps you should consider that maybe you're in the wrong at least a tiny bit. As it stands, though, you've chosen to make this a test of endurance, and people are bailing on trying to reason with you. I can't see any way to get through without watching you dig yourself deeper, so the best thing I can do is bail too so that you stop digging.

With all of the opposition driven away, you can get the admins to do as you see fit.

Congratulations. You win.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: The Eggnoob on May 17, 2015, 01:25:32 PM
V_V I only need to skim this topic to see nothing but bullshit. Okay, look. I'm gonna add my piece, and I'm sorry that this has very little to do with the title change or whatever, and I apologize if what I say is completely out of line, but I'm tired of seeing it.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with all of you fueling yourselves and drama (not aiming at the people trying to be level-headed and looking to end it). You guys are a fucking community, and butting heads too. Hyper and FF, for example, were friends and now at each others' throats in a sense. Where'd that go? What happened to any sense of decency (or was that never there to begin with)? Instead, I see stupid opinions and little aspects of people's anger being thrust on another in a really childish manner and nothing happens, then one person or the other whines that they're not through and hide it until it comes up again.

This kind of thing is something I deal on a semi-regular basis, as I'm a leader of the SADX SS sub-community, as well as see it SO much in the rest of the Sonic SS community as a whole. I've seen it on TSC enough as well, even from admins, and angers me that you guys sometimes don't even know how to handle specific things, as well as poorly representing your own community. And this is as a whole, not individually, though I have personal beef with a few people. The only person I felt I could rely on for decisions that matter was Thorn. You know how bad that is? And the worst part is that I saw no one trying to improve themselves as admins, with some hints that FF was trying hard enough. Being a super mod for speedrun.com has lead me to know that you can only make decisions correctly if you collaborate and have dependable subordinates, and some fill-ins if needed, and you NEED to trust them, and THEY need to trust you. Not only that, but they need to be open about their ideals, and when those ideals matter, and when they do not. And it's your job to make sure things are well-decided FOR THE BETTER OF THE COMMUNITY AND ITS GAMES, NOT to your own ideals, and that's something I've seen too fucking often from TSC (no disrespect, Thorn, don't get me wrong). And without Thorn, I do not see this possible unless there's some more leadership.

Now, I'm done ranting about admins. The community. Since I joined, there've been idiots all around starting, fueling, and encouraging drama. One of the first times I posted on the forums, I got into an argument with Cruizer. Aside from that, it's a great introduction to the community (aside from meeting Jawzun and francisco, but that's off-topic). There's a reason I've avoided the TSC community, and this is a large portion of it. While I've seen plenty of welcoming and helpful people, there's a LOT of bigots and idiots that I've met as well that corrupt the community and discourage others. There's lots of arrogance I've seen as well (which, I'll be honest, I've been struggling with arrogance since I got here and I hate it), and people don't know how put themselves in another's shoes and SO many people care more about themselves than someone else, going as far as to hide strats and refuse to use others (though this is shots at the SS community, mainly). This hurts the community. It hurts the meta-game, and does nothing but care for one person to get the "glorious Werl Rekky" you hear about so much.

If y'all even cared REMOTELY, you'd find a way to clean this shit up, regardless of your own fallacies, opinions, and ideals, because that's how you care for a community. It's how you help it grow, not whine and cry at each other like I've seen for all this time interacting with the community, which I've even partaken in, unfortunately. I hate it. It's stupid and self-centered, and all of us should feel ashamed for both letting this go on and taking part in it. You want TSC to thrive, do something FOR THE GOOD OF TSC. This goes for admins AND users/competitors.

If you want my personal opinion as to what all of you should do, you'll be disappointed. It's up to you guys to make a change, for better or worse. For the sake of a community I used to love and partake in, I sure hope it's the former.



Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 17, 2015, 10:55:23 PM
mmm... maybe I should tell another story from the past, to explain why this is all happening.

to do this I have to go far back in time, I have to explain my original ban, 99% of the current members have no idea why I was originally banned from forums. (hell I don't even remember exactly, but I do know the events that led up to it.)  my notoriousness comes from my numerous ban evasion to get back into the site.

but, if you dig really deep,If you dig really really deep into s06 appreciation land you can find my post.

Back when Noah was building the ark, I was originally banned because my post "weren't up to TSC standards". if you actually find them.. they aren't so bad~ follow me here because this is important.

now welcome to the present day, eventually the mods didn't care I ban evaded, nor cared I joined the forums. (and now I see why) I was really gitty, and started reading a lot of random topics and things I've missed out on.

my reaction: I've covered my mouth a lot and whispered to myself "omg, they allow this stuff now?!" If you guys were held to the same TSC standards back then, about 65% ~ 70% of you would also be banned.

Tl:Dr TSC posting standards have severely degenerated

everything I did back then, in the end was non-nefarious (I.E. I would never cheat) I would concede, and there was lines I absolutely would not/know not to ever cross, lines that I see being crossed today, and I don't like it. That's why my change of heart, to help combat it. I'm not kidding when I said I should be an admin. I should, because I've been on both polar sides of the tsc fight, I know what to look for.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: SpinDashMaster on May 20, 2015, 09:06:26 PM
Is it just me, or are posts in here starting to sink to 4chan level?

/me grab popcorn

I thought again about saying something five-paged and witty, but after I finished I just highlighted and backspaced. It's better that way.

I guess I really am not the same guy anymore.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 21, 2015, 12:38:27 AM
Is it just me, or are posts in here starting to sink to 4chan level?

/me grab popcorn


well, the optics are terrible right now, everyone is venting bottled up rage of why they hate each other/the system, and it almost looks like all the admins don't care/demoted themselves, except for FF, and I'd also say gerbilsoft because the site goes down sometimes and he brings it back up.

It will be all ok though, and pass. On the bright side we cant really go anywere but up from here.

I'll go a step further and say, some ppl leaving may not be such a bad thing. ppl that where creating artificial barriers on site progression, due to unreasonable extreme fears. it's ok to try different things with the site.

add more charts, merge tusc (sonic megamix deserves a spot on tsc #realtalk), ban emulators  w/e, etc. whats the worse that can happen, you gain a memeber or two? if something truely sucks it can be removed... its not big deal.

I get what SDM is saying without knowing what he was going to say, there is way to much hyperventilating twitchyness going on here. part of the blame is, typed words are monotoned, and you cant really get a good context of how ppl are really expressing their thoughts, many assume each other are being aggressive and mean about it. in reality most of us are chill, and nice. there're some bad apples, but they usually just threaten to leave all the time, and hopefully for us they actually do.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
I will be very clear here, Hyper. I didn't argue with you because of FF or anybody else's sake; The only reason why I did it is because most of the things you brought up make you sound either really arrogant, stupid, or indecisive. It just makes you sound like I don't have a mind of my own.

And I don't mean this new post.

Now, for your new post, I just find it weird that you would write another book after starting with "I felt that was going to be the end of the topic".
This is not really that simple, but I guess maybe we have different ideas of what simple is. The one thing that really irks me, though, is this:

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
A lot of this has been an attempt to "get" her to be assertive, because it will be this courage, and this alone, that will allow her to see what she "should" really do, whatever that means in her view. I never meant for this topic to go so far, or for a lot of other things to happen in the name of hurting her (because I never meant to hurt her at all), it was just misunderstood that way since my methods were probably not so direct. Enough about FF, though, since as it is, there will probably be about 4 posts mocking me again for gosh knows what.
 

into this

Quote from: Hypersonic7701
In the end, I don't really regret what happened [...] Nor do I truly regret the effective casualties this topic caused

Most people know very well what you have done and I will not bring it up again, but effectively, you say that you did what you did and don't care about the results? That makes you sound more like a sociopath than a normal person, to be honest.


In the end though, I feel this topic overall shouldn't have gone this way at all. I mean sure, we lost some administrators, but that doesn't change ANYTHING in terms of whats happening to the site. It's not like Administrators are magicians; This site is almost the same it was 2 years ago (for better or for worse), and the only real change is the fact that it lacks additional staff. However it has always lacked proper staff needed to change the site (meaning active coders), but apparently, everybody seems to just ignore that fact and just be like this guy:


I just want people to know that TSC isn't actually ending; I don't think it has ever been as big as it was before i came here, anyway. Most people that come here are active in other communities and people just simply don't use TSC as a means of communicating and cooperating, only for showing their e-peen.

P.S.: This topic should've never been about you, anyway.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 21, 2015, 01:44:22 PM
there will probably be about 4 posts mocking me again for gosh knows what.

If by "gosh knows what" you mean "being a fucking idiot", then sure : )

A lot of this has been an attempt to "get" her to be assertive,

OH I SEE. You're a dick to people because real life is actually an anime and this makes people stronger. IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW.

On the other hand, I'm a dick to people that are fucking idiots and/or deserve it.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Don on May 21, 2015, 06:06:26 PM
You're missing the part where Thorn's "direct post" leads us to now. Had he not made that post, this topic would have died sooner and this topic's intent would have been exactly as you say. So yes, this topic will continue to be here.

Just 2 simple things:

We could've ended it then and there;
I wasn't trying to convince you. I just wanted point out your bullshit.

So yes, lock the topic if you will, but don't act like you didn't want this attention you got.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Bilan on May 21, 2015, 06:07:25 PM
WE'RE A HIVE MIND AND WE ASSAULT AS ONE

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141113023032/freddy-fazbears-pizza/images/2/2b/ThePuppetsFace.png)
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: Starlight_Glimmer on May 23, 2015, 01:34:36 AM
yall need to stop, and apologize with each other. There is real things we need to get done with adminstration title change. you guys should help me fill in holes, and create new things.

I PERSONALLY know one admin that has left trying to change things for the better. he was literally a cunt hair away from it (in fact he did it) and it got over turned at the last second without any testing/experimenting. (which is extreme bs)

they dont want yall fighting about stupid stuff, if we wana fight we will take it to the leaderboards.

they want yall to come together and fix/improve tsc. they want change, but they dont want to be responsible for it if it goes south, understabily. they have a reputation to uphold.

you should know, at this time tsc is very vulnerable to new/good ideas. and Ive personally heard quite a few very good ideas, and you should be taking advantage of it, over anything else.

Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: SpinDashMaster on May 24, 2015, 10:59:21 AM
Any good ideas will simply be shot down by our resident Anti-idea turrets.

Any attempt to argue with Anti-idea turrets results in shenanigans.

Any attempt to destroy an Anti-idea turrets results in --- Let's find out!
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: hfactor66 on May 24, 2015, 01:15:17 PM
*smh* it's sad to see that this is what TSC has come to… it really is… this forum just might as well not even exist, since all the social aspects of TSC are on Skype or some shit nowadays.
Title: Re: Administrator Title Change
Post by: TimpZ on May 24, 2015, 07:01:38 PM
Forgive me for being late to the party but I'd like to give my gratitude to Thorn, Parax and whomever I've learned to know during my time on TSC for all their efforts both prior and after I joined to help make the community what it is when it's at its best and for putting up with so much bullshit, including from me.

My best experience from TSC is by far the revival of race nights and the year that followed. Unfortunately it changed for the worse and I was honestly quite sad when it finally died. Thank you guys, I had a blast.

As far as what's to come of TSC in the future, I'm in agreement with Parax in that I don't see any real future for it unless some major changes are implemented. When it comes to stats the site is in this limbo where you can't call out a proof without solid evidence but at the same time solid evidence for either side doesn't exist. But instead of putting the burden of proof on the one claiming the stat, the burden of proof lies on the one making the BS call. The result is frustration both from users and admins and unless this is changed I can only see TSC devolving to obscurity.

I've previously argued that TSC should go with the times and include full-game runs of some sort on the site. However I've changed my opinion since today that role has already been filled by newer and more progressive sites. I'm happy with TSC filling the niche of score, ring and IL runs since that's the embodiment of the spirit SEGA had in the 90's with their heavy arcade feel. But the reason TSC and its members have become more toxic and/or vocal about it in recent years I would attribute to frustration to the status quo that I think most feel is hurting the site.

I hope change for the better can come sooner than later. And if nothing else, it's been a fun ride while it lasted :).