The Sonic Center
Sonic Central => General Sonic => Topic started by: Shadow Jacky on October 28, 2008, 05:06:14 pm
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I should have pointed this out as soon as it was finalized, but from now on, no one submit scores to Sonic Heroes as it'll be a waste of time and effort.
below is the reasons why and what followed to it. I thought the deletion would have happened sooner, but Gerbil is taking his sweet time with it. If you feel bad about it, well too late. This topic and the info have been floating around for months now and if you're just now learning about it, start socializing with your fellow members, it makes things a lot easier that way.
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Well this was brought up around June/July when I finished my score guide to Egg Fleet-Dark for blueblazer who needed some help with the stage. Then by accident I stumbled across the method to obtaining the mysterious 200 point bonuses that I'm sure some of you have gotten by now and had no clue how it happened (and if you did you should have said something!)
Next thing I know, I find out you could get a bigger bonus without comboing or killing any enemy by stunning them, then thundershooting another untouched enemy. Getting bonuses from 200-1000 from 3-4 enemies...but that was the problem, getting a bigger bonus from so few enemies when more are needed for a certain bonus.
Then I get the suggestion that it might just be from thundershooting period and no fancy crap was needed (thank you JBertolli)...that's what changed it. All you needed to do was thundershoot any grounded enemy repeatedly for some random bonus to pop up. This went from a group of enemies to just 1 all in one day of testing.
I have a video put up showing you it can be done in various ways and also with all teams. As other have tested, this does work on the PC and PS2 versions and I wouldn't put it past the Xbox version to have fixed this either.
video of said glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbX0GR6GRvA
also if you think this could be simply avoided...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onz7mkbPEJA
watch the above at 2:07. maybe I should have my score taken down, or maybe even my last score resulted in a random bonus I didn't even notice when playing. That was just from thundershooting and that run was done back in May. I don't know about you, but starting over a run just because I used a move that's perfectly fine in the game isn't much fun.
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Perhaps the best approach to this problem is to set a time cap for a score run to count. To me, this seems similar to score scapling tricks such as the one with the cars in City Escape. A time cap would curtail the effectiveness of the glitch by cracking down on deliberate abuse while lucky accidents won't get hit. 10 minutes?
-Edit: Looked at statistics for the longest level availible in score attack (Final Fortress). The average time for the Dark version is about 9:30-10:00, thus the cap must be calculated assuming the longest stage as to avoid accidentally making a bunch of legit runs void across a whole bunch of levels. The power of deliberate abuse is inversely related to the importance of the time bonus, just like the City Escape case (previous precedence). By setting an arbitray time cap, one cuts down on the amount of time you have to exploit it, thus forcing the time bonus to become more important.
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A time limit would still essentially require you to do it to the extent of the limit, adding a lot of randomness and frustration to what I assume is already random and frustrating. Additionally considering the length of a lot of levels in SH, 12 minutes probably isn't enough for some SAs.
It sucks, but scores should probably just be removed. :\ That or trusting everyone not to intentionally abuse it and hope the difference from any accidental random bonuses is negligible, though obviously that probably wouldn't work too well with random noobs.
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I say get rid of them as well...it's just too random.
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Flat out getting rid of scores just seems too rash to me. Like taking a flame thrower (I will not use the flamethrower to solve a problem unless its absolutely nessecary) to a problem that only needs a scalpel. Edited my previous post. I think we should try to use previous events (precedents) and previous data to try to resolve this.
I do have another more drastic idea, this one based on knowledge of enemy weaknesses and precedents involving ring scalping in Sonic Adventure. Perhaps something like this.
"You may not hit a non-boss enemy with Thunder Shoot more than once. Arcing (when tossed ammo strikes another enemy as the result of a chain reaction, like Chain Lightning) does not count as a hit (only the first guy hit in the chain).
-Explanation: This seems really crazy and stupid at first, but makes a lot of sense when you think about it. We're both good at this game, so we should both know that you realistically only need one Thunder Shoot to take a non boss enemy down, whether it be from a high level Thunder Shoot or from the follow up with other formations to quickly and efficiently kill any non boss enemy in this game. The ones that you can't are more efficiently killed off with Power Dunk or a team blast anyway.
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FINALLY someone mentions it!
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either get rid of thundershooting altogether or getting rid of scores...one or the other. even if it's just "don't use it more than once" it can still happen even with one.
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I say scratch ... keep in mind, the more complicated the rules are, the more we have to explain and enforce them.
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either enforce the rules, get rid of charts, or stop breaking the games...
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I'm for get rid of them. Because later if we don't it will become a great problem. (I'm surprised no one has abused it yet.)
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something else I want to pull up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onz7mkbPEJA
same vid from this topic, but another thing I noticed...
look at 1:28, for some reason I picked up another 200 point bonus from 1 ring trail (4 rings). Now that I think about it, I did encounter something odd when I did my Egg Fleet-Dark score guide...possibly another glitch?
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This is similar to when a rule was put in place for Hot Shelter - Gamma that forbid shooting switches, or forced only a number of hits allowed. It was impossible in normal play and near impossible when paying attention, so I disputed the rule.
I was of the opinion to just go back to infinite hitting allowed, but that was just one stage. If all stages can be broken, even accidentally, get rid of them. We did get rid of Hot Shelter. :(
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Hey it's still in Freestyle.
I spent way too fucking long on that when I was aiming for a good time...
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Also I talked about this before in the chatroom but thought I'd reiterate it here: I am for banning the scores altogether. Basically there are 2 courses of action:
a) Putting a time limit on the scores. I see this as arbitrary, and will only make people race towards the end and then wait until the time limit is up doing this trick.
b) Remove the scores altogether.
Notice how either option requires the extant scores to be removed. So, may as well just choose B.
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ADMINS TAKE NOTICE
THE MAJORITY WANTS SCORES GONE!
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I think there should be a time limit on the first couple of stages in this game,but probably not the last two stages depending on what team you're playing as.
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looks like it worked
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bump for hope others who have no clue reads this...
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Thanks SJ. This is certainly thought-provoking.
Oh, and SJ, side-note: I got Heroes once again. :)
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when are heroes scores getting deleted
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whenever gerbil puts his "effort" into it.
I said I wouldn't harass him about it.
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Well I didn't. <_<
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This score should go in those top 10s.
P.S. I love SJ's new pic.
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what score? and thanks heh
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Hey GerbilSoft hurry up and get rid of Heroes scores. D:
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MY LEADERSHIP!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
(just kidding >_>)
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I still don't agree with this decision but I won't bother fighting it.
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This reminds me of something I came acroos in SRA.
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Done.
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This reminds me of something I came acroos in SRA.
What did you come across?
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Done.
YAY FINALLY